Reader's Digest says Umbrellakinesis is correct. There is a human and therefore controllable component to luck. This is backed up by a ten year study that found you can make your own luck which is essentially what UK believes.
The rest of the crap you people tried to project on her is just that - CRAP.
Read it and weep you close minded OS fuckers:
How to Get Lucky
Scientific proof that you make your own breaks.
By Richard Wiseman
From Reader's Digest For centuries, people have recognized the power of luck and have done whatever they could to try seizing it. Take knocking on wood, thought to date back to pagan rituals aimed at eliciting help from powerful tree gods. We still do it today, though few, if any, of us worship tree gods. So why do we pass this and other superstitions down from generation to generation? The answer lies in the power of luck.
Live a Charmed Life
To investigate scientifically why some people are consistently lucky and others aren't, I advertised in national periodicals for volunteers of both varieties. Four hundred men and women from all walks of life -- ages 18 to 84 -- responded.
Over a ten-year period, I interviewed these volunteers, asked them to complete diaries, personality questionnaires and IQ tests, and invited them to my laboratory for experiments. Lucky people, I found, get that way via some basic principles -- seizing chance opportunities; creating self-fulfilling prophecies through positive expectations; and adopting a resilient attitude that turns bad luck around.
Open Your Mind
Consider chance opportunities: Lucky people regularly have them; unlucky people don't. To determine why, I gave lucky and unlucky people a newspaper, and asked them to tell me how many photos were inside. On average, unlucky people spent about two minutes on this exercise; lucky people spent seconds. Why? Because on the paper's second page -- in big type -- was the message "Stop counting: There are 43 photographs in this newspaper." Lucky people tended to spot the message. Unlucky ones didn't. I put a second one halfway through the paper: "Stop counting, tell the experimenter you have seen this and win $250." Again, the unlucky people missed it.
The lesson: Unlucky people miss chance opportunities because they're too busy looking for something else. Lucky people see what is there rather than just what they're looking for.
This is only part of the story. Many of my lucky participants tried hard to add variety to their lives. Before making important decisions, one altered his route to work. Another described a way of meeting people. He noticed that at parties he usually talked to the same type of person. To change this, he thought of a color and then spoke only to guests wearing that color -- women in red, say, or men in black.
Does this technique work? Well, imagine living in the center of an apple orchard. Each day you must collect a basket of apples. At first, it won't matter where you look. The entire orchard will have apples. Gradually, it becomes harder to find apples in places you've visited before. If you go to new parts of the orchard each time, the odds of finding apples will increase dramatically. It is exactly the same with luck.
Relish the Upside
Another important principle revolved around the way in which lucky and unlucky people deal with misfortune. Imagine representing your country in the Olympics. You compete, do well, and win a bronze medal. Now imagine a second Olympics. This time you do even better and win a silver medal. How happy do you think you'd feel? Most of us think we'd be happier after winning the silver medal.
But research suggests athletes who win bronze medals are actually happier. This is because silver medalists think that if they'd performed slightly better, they might have won a gold medal. In contrast, bronze medalists focus on how if they'd performed slightly worse, they wouldn't have won anything. Psychologists call this ability to imagine what might have happened, rather than what actually happened, "counter-factual" thinking.
To find out if lucky people use counter-factual thinking to ease the impact of misfortune, I asked my subjects to imagine being in a bank. Suddenly, an armed robber enters and fires a shot that hits them in the arms. Unlucky people tended to say this would be their bad luck to be in the bank during the robbery. Lucky people said it could have been worse: "You could have been shot in the head." This kind of thinking makes people feel better about themselves, keeps expectations high, and increases the likelihood of continuing to live a lucky life.
Learn to Be Lucky
Finally, I created a series of experiments examining whether thought and behavior can enhance good fortune.
First came one-on-one meetings, during which participants completed questionnaires that measured their luck and their satisfaction with six key areas of their lives. I then outlined the main principles of luck, and described techniques designed to help participants react like lucky people. For instance, they were taught how to be more open to opportunities around them, how to break routines, and how to deal with bad luck by imagining things being worse. They were asked to carry out specific exercises for a month and then report back to me.
The results were dramatic: 80 percent were happier and more satisfied with their lives -- and luckier. One unlucky subject said that after adjusting her attitude -- expecting good fortune, not dwelling on the negative -- her bad luck had vanished. One day, she went shopping and found a dress she liked. But she didn't buy it, and when she returned to the store in a week, it was gone. Instead of slinking away disappointed, she looked around and found a better dress -- for less. Events like this made her a much happier person.
Her experience shows how thoughts and behavior affect the good and bad fortune we encounter. It proves that the most elusive of holy grails -- an effective way of taking advantage of the power of luck -- is available to us all.
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Has anyone noticed that the blogger who hosted the gleeful trashing of Hardballs is now calling on us to play nice and promote each other? You people will never outgrow high school, but nice that you're trying.
I throw my shoes at you.
**********
Comments
The pics are breathtaking. Yup, there are nudes galore!!
I feel lucky already.
I feel lucky already.
You had me with the nudity but coming back for the text
So, if a person has a spree of bad luck, did they deserve it or bring it or did they bring it on to themselves? This is the inverse of that belief.
Stellaa, you aren't gonna sucker me into that pit. Optimists are luckier than Pessimists. Do with the data what you will.
Did Hardballs chase away Umbrellakinesis?
Stellaa.... to jump in the crazy with both feet... all matter gives off energy. All energy attracts like energy, just like the way a tuning fork will make all other tuning forks of the same note hum in sync.
Which would mean neither - they didn't deserve it or bring it on themselves, their negative energy attracted other negative energy. Most of us are oblivious to our own energy. We let people and things get to us instead of staying positive by thinking it could have been worse.
BBE, awesome post.
Which would mean neither - they didn't deserve it or bring it on themselves, their negative energy attracted other negative energy. Most of us are oblivious to our own energy. We let people and things get to us instead of staying positive by thinking it could have been worse.
BBE, awesome post.
Nope. Umbrellakinesis has not published the email calling her a Satanist (yet).
Hardballs was crucified publicly on Dorinda Fox's now deleted post.
The only correlation is the high school nature of the attacks.
Hardballs was crucified publicly on Dorinda Fox's now deleted post.
The only correlation is the high school nature of the attacks.
You are an evil piece of shit who should die. You pathetic moron. I hate you and will destroy you. YOu stand for evil and let'sjust say you'll hear from me soon_ Voodoo will get you
Bring it, bitch.
Ranting Boomer, nice fantasy world. I had people like that tell my dying sister in law that she caused her death cause she did not have the right attitude. Bull crap. Double bull crap. So, you tell me the poor child in Zimbabwe dying from cholera vs. the privileged American child each brought on their luck?
Not to mess up your post, but what should we think about the current spate of bad luck she is going through? I hope that her beliefs don't drive her to despair.
Not to mess up your post, but what should we think about the current spate of bad luck she is going through? I hope that her beliefs don't drive her to despair.
Nice job, bbe. I hope UK comes back.
You wish you were a bitch..you infertile hag, you lesbian spinster slob...yeah yeah OS people having been telling me all about you. I'll bring it on all right: only you won't be there to know it. HA!
btw I'm rating your article...although your thesis is hogwash cooked up New Age crap. I've silenced som eof these people.
DOn't try to be more hateful than me, Sister. I'm the DIVA around here.
btw I'm rating your article...although your thesis is hogwash cooked up New Age crap. I've silenced som eof these people.
DOn't try to be more hateful than me, Sister. I'm the DIVA around here.
Stella... I'm not saying that at all. I don't think your dying sister in law "caused" it. Nor do I think anyone "causes" what happens to them. I'm sorry that's how you hear it. :)
I know when I want scientific explanations for the mysteries of the universe, the very first place I turn to is Readers' Digest.
Great source for funny jokes, too. And did you know if you send one in and the use it, you get paid? How lucky is that?
Great source for funny jokes, too. And did you know if you send one in and the use it, you get paid? How lucky is that?
I feel luckier that I just read your post. Love the RD article and that you found it and posted it here for us to ponder. Makes very good sense to me and believing it is so, feels sooooo much better than the negative take on life circumstances. Everything happens for a reason, though the reason may not be apparent to us when faced with difficult circumstances. In the end, there is a choice on how we see all things, whether these things just hapen to us or...are experienced by us through our conscious choices and willingness to adapt and grow, either way.
If you can bring on good, you can also bring on bad energy. It's not what it sounds like, it's the logic of the premise and the alleged RD article.
(Passing oatmeal raisin cookies around)
This is a slugfest I can really wade into. Yippee... Those who don't believe in energy and manifestation and positive thinking are who they deserve to be. Who you ask to be. Who you are. Great. I've got nothing against you. In fact, I adore some of you. Can't help myself. That woman in the picture second from the bottom, for instance. If she wants to disagree, I'm helpless.
Even if you've got a closed mind and a hardened heart, please just try not to harm the precious flowers. I humbly ask you to judge not, lest ye be judged. Keep on your sidewalk. It's not necessary to carry a flame thrower. You can do more with a smile. And if, by chance, you take off yer shoes and decide to frolic, have fun and breathe and enjoy the beauty around you without crapping all over someone else's bliss.
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening right in front of you. We don't need empirical science to prove it; and you don't need to spray your negative attitude like a dog marking it's territory. There's no need to be threatened, which is what really amazes me about this issue. Why are the non believers so threatened?
Anyone?
Even if you've got a closed mind and a hardened heart, please just try not to harm the precious flowers. I humbly ask you to judge not, lest ye be judged. Keep on your sidewalk. It's not necessary to carry a flame thrower. You can do more with a smile. And if, by chance, you take off yer shoes and decide to frolic, have fun and breathe and enjoy the beauty around you without crapping all over someone else's bliss.
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening right in front of you. We don't need empirical science to prove it; and you don't need to spray your negative attitude like a dog marking it's territory. There's no need to be threatened, which is what really amazes me about this issue. Why are the non believers so threatened?
Anyone?
I wish UK WOULD print the letter calling her a Satanist, as if no one else wants to take it on, I would like to refute it. You cannot be a Satanist if the core of your spiritual philosophy revolves around the concept of the creation of All by The Creator, who I call the One God. I feel no shame in saying that I believe in God the Creator of All as that is what I believe. It is OK not to believe in this concept or definition of God, but to call someone a Satanist because they believe in God? No, not appropriate.
Bear in mind to understand the concepts, part of the understanding comes from thinking of this world in which we live as a reality of extremes. People come to Earth to experience both the good and the bad. In this philosophy, even though they cannot remember, these souls agreed to come into this material world and lifetime to help others by teaching and learning with them through good times as well as the bad. It is the human condition as we experience it no matter how we choose to describe the same.
The difficult things happen to challenge us to be our best in the face of adversity. Not for the dying suffering child or sister to experience pain and suffering as a good thing and be their best mecessarily -- it is a very hard and terrible thing to be sick, in pain or dying.
The difficult part is to come to believe is that these people chose to have this experience before coming to Earth in conjunction with all those with whom they will interact in this lifetime (according to the philosophy). A portion of the reason for this is to help those that would care for them during the period of time surrounding their illness and/or death to do good and be good.
People are called upon to do and be their best during hard times. Some of us succeed and are stronger for the experience, sometimes the same strong ones fail at a similar task. It is all part of what we agreed to do -- that is the basic premise of the philosopohy -- we chose of our own free will BEFORE we came to this life experience. Much like choosing to be a play, yet surely much more real.
It is a hard philosophy to swallow in snippets, that is why there is so much anger and resentment when it is presented. I didn't like it AT ALL when I first heard, and fought against this thinking with all my being. Over time, however, it has come to me to see that when hearing and understanding it to the best of my ability, it really DOES explain ALL.
The concepts defy logic on the surface, and to some extent even when understood are very difficult to accept, but the philosophy does explains all when all is explained. It is NO easy task to explain the philosophy or to live it, however, and I am surely not doing it justice here or elsewhere although I am trying my very best.
As I wrote elsewhere, we are coming to a time when this kind of thinking will be a discussable issue, that people will want to discuss. Apparently, we are just heading in that direction right now and we are not ready. Is that a good enough explanation for now? I hope so, as that is the best I can do...
Bear in mind to understand the concepts, part of the understanding comes from thinking of this world in which we live as a reality of extremes. People come to Earth to experience both the good and the bad. In this philosophy, even though they cannot remember, these souls agreed to come into this material world and lifetime to help others by teaching and learning with them through good times as well as the bad. It is the human condition as we experience it no matter how we choose to describe the same.
The difficult things happen to challenge us to be our best in the face of adversity. Not for the dying suffering child or sister to experience pain and suffering as a good thing and be their best mecessarily -- it is a very hard and terrible thing to be sick, in pain or dying.
The difficult part is to come to believe is that these people chose to have this experience before coming to Earth in conjunction with all those with whom they will interact in this lifetime (according to the philosophy). A portion of the reason for this is to help those that would care for them during the period of time surrounding their illness and/or death to do good and be good.
People are called upon to do and be their best during hard times. Some of us succeed and are stronger for the experience, sometimes the same strong ones fail at a similar task. It is all part of what we agreed to do -- that is the basic premise of the philosopohy -- we chose of our own free will BEFORE we came to this life experience. Much like choosing to be a play, yet surely much more real.
It is a hard philosophy to swallow in snippets, that is why there is so much anger and resentment when it is presented. I didn't like it AT ALL when I first heard, and fought against this thinking with all my being. Over time, however, it has come to me to see that when hearing and understanding it to the best of my ability, it really DOES explain ALL.
The concepts defy logic on the surface, and to some extent even when understood are very difficult to accept, but the philosophy does explains all when all is explained. It is NO easy task to explain the philosophy or to live it, however, and I am surely not doing it justice here or elsewhere although I am trying my very best.
As I wrote elsewhere, we are coming to a time when this kind of thinking will be a discussable issue, that people will want to discuss. Apparently, we are just heading in that direction right now and we are not ready. Is that a good enough explanation for now? I hope so, as that is the best I can do...
Alleged?
http://www.rd.com/advice-and-know-how/how-to-get-lucky/article27664.html
http://www.rd.com/advice-and-know-how/how-to-get-lucky/article27664.html
RantingBoomer, lalucas, dynomyte, Cathy: I agree
with you.
We do in fact create our own reality. It's either that
or one is a victim. It's your choice.
The trouble is that we humans have been conditioned
to believe there is something outside of ourselves to
whom we must surrender our power. An outside
Entity who has power over us. There is nothing "outside" everything is connected/intertwined.
I believe that power comes from within. If a person
is sick, or born into unfortunate circumstances it
is due to ignorance, and I don't mean that in a
perjorative way. This does not make them a "bad"
person. Even the most enlightened being goes through
a process of becoming enlightened.
Thanks for this post BBE.
with you.
We do in fact create our own reality. It's either that
or one is a victim. It's your choice.
The trouble is that we humans have been conditioned
to believe there is something outside of ourselves to
whom we must surrender our power. An outside
Entity who has power over us. There is nothing "outside" everything is connected/intertwined.
I believe that power comes from within. If a person
is sick, or born into unfortunate circumstances it
is due to ignorance, and I don't mean that in a
perjorative way. This does not make them a "bad"
person. Even the most enlightened being goes through
a process of becoming enlightened.
Thanks for this post BBE.
When I left an abusive marriage 13 years ago, I felt I was a victim. A victim of abuse. 13 years later, I can see what my contribution was. I can see how I could have done things differently, but I lacked the information to handle things any way but how I did. I could only work with what I knew at the time.
It is the same with all humanity. We can only work with what we have to work with.
People say they believe in God and eschew "new age" thinking. But doesn't traditional Christianity say we are created in God's image? And if we *are* created in Gods image, wouldn't that mean we have the power to create? If we don't have that ability, we are not created in God's image, are we?
I don't think it means physical image, or we'd all be males born in Jerusalem and have long flowing hair. Clearly, we're not. lol.
Notice the questions marks? These are questions, not statements. I have no statements. I have many questions and a very open mind. I tend to believe that the mind is like a parachute - works best when it's open.
It is the same with all humanity. We can only work with what we have to work with.
People say they believe in God and eschew "new age" thinking. But doesn't traditional Christianity say we are created in God's image? And if we *are* created in Gods image, wouldn't that mean we have the power to create? If we don't have that ability, we are not created in God's image, are we?
I don't think it means physical image, or we'd all be males born in Jerusalem and have long flowing hair. Clearly, we're not. lol.
Notice the questions marks? These are questions, not statements. I have no statements. I have many questions and a very open mind. I tend to believe that the mind is like a parachute - works best when it's open.
Still pondering your post. Liked the pictures, especially the last one.
Throwing the shoes...needs to be a new catch phrase.
Throwing the shoes...needs to be a new catch phrase.
What you are all saying, if it goes for people goes for nations. So, the nations that are powerful, wealthy and healthy are enlightened, evolved, higher beings. And the poor nations, oh, well, they are collectively what shall I say?
I'm gonna thumb this for three reasons:
#1 - You are defending U/K. You, BBE, are sticking up for a point of view that someone else on OS has. No, I'm not taking a jab at you - I just never expected that.
#2 - You are allowing commentary on your post.
#3 - Ah, I lied. I only had two.
Anyway, this is a good post (I even enjoyed the nudity somewhat :-D). Thanks for writing it.
#1 - You are defending U/K. You, BBE, are sticking up for a point of view that someone else on OS has. No, I'm not taking a jab at you - I just never expected that.
#2 - You are allowing commentary on your post.
#3 - Ah, I lied. I only had two.
Anyway, this is a good post (I even enjoyed the nudity somewhat :-D). Thanks for writing it.
I think there is an excellent observation by Lonnie about Reader's Digest. Gee......what a shining example of the world's wonders brought into perspective.....with a positive and sometimes religious twist. Love the way they eviscerate literature.......and,as Lonnie said, they pay for jokes!!!!!!!!!!!
Stellaa... nations are just big groups of people. Have you ever heard of the Heifer foundation? They send plants and animals to poverty ridden countries, and change lives. Two goats can provide a family with milk for children to drink, and extra to make cheese. And suddenly, the family has not only food and drink, but enough left over to take to market and sell, generating income to buy other food and school supplies.
But here's the truly lovely part. When the goats have offspring, the families pass the young on to another family. Many of the participating families have said that the "best" part of the program is know that they, who once went hungry, can lift another family out of hunger and poverty. It lets them GIVE, which feeds the spirit far more than receiving.
Perhaps the poor nations are a test of the rest of us? Note the question mark. Again, I don't know. I have more questions than answers.
All I know for sure is that I serve the world far more when I ask what I can do for others than focus on what isn't working for me. Oddly, when I seek to serve others, more things work out for me, too. Is it the good energy? Darned if I know. I really don't. The older I get, the more I realize how much the things I don't know exceed those that I do know.
I do know that when I occassionally fall into the woe is me trap, it doesn't just rain, it pours. So I try stay out of that mental muck hole and focus on doing what I can do to leave this world a better place when my day comes. :)
But here's the truly lovely part. When the goats have offspring, the families pass the young on to another family. Many of the participating families have said that the "best" part of the program is know that they, who once went hungry, can lift another family out of hunger and poverty. It lets them GIVE, which feeds the spirit far more than receiving.
Perhaps the poor nations are a test of the rest of us? Note the question mark. Again, I don't know. I have more questions than answers.
All I know for sure is that I serve the world far more when I ask what I can do for others than focus on what isn't working for me. Oddly, when I seek to serve others, more things work out for me, too. Is it the good energy? Darned if I know. I really don't. The older I get, the more I realize how much the things I don't know exceed those that I do know.
I do know that when I occassionally fall into the woe is me trap, it doesn't just rain, it pours. So I try stay out of that mental muck hole and focus on doing what I can do to leave this world a better place when my day comes. :)
Interesting article, BBE. Here's the original, I think, from The Skeptical Inquirer (PDF link). Last paragraph:
The project has also demonstrated how skepticism can play a positive role in people’s lives. The research is not simply about debunking superstitious thinking and behavior. Instead, it is about encouraging people to move away from a magical way of thinking and toward a more rational view of luck. Perhaps most important of all, it is about using science and skepticism to increase the level of luck, happiness, and success in people’s lives.
For what it's worth, I'm fine with the results that Wiseman describes. I think most people who think of themselves as being rational would say the same. I even like it. Wiseman is talking about "being lucky" in a particular way: My research revealed that lucky people generate their own good fortune via four basic principles. They are skilled at creating and noticing chance opportunities, make lucky decisions by listening to their intuition, create self-fulfilling prophesies via positive expectations, and adopt a resilient attitude that transforms bad luck into good. My take is that Wiseman's luck doesn't involve being able to affect the flip of a coin; it's not about special abilities or perceptions or powers or control--indeed there's nothing here that's beyond our abilities to explain with science and math. What Wiseman does describe, though, sounds like valuable advice for everyday living.
Oh and one final thought: I throw my shoes at you!
The project has also demonstrated how skepticism can play a positive role in people’s lives. The research is not simply about debunking superstitious thinking and behavior. Instead, it is about encouraging people to move away from a magical way of thinking and toward a more rational view of luck. Perhaps most important of all, it is about using science and skepticism to increase the level of luck, happiness, and success in people’s lives.
For what it's worth, I'm fine with the results that Wiseman describes. I think most people who think of themselves as being rational would say the same. I even like it. Wiseman is talking about "being lucky" in a particular way: My research revealed that lucky people generate their own good fortune via four basic principles. They are skilled at creating and noticing chance opportunities, make lucky decisions by listening to their intuition, create self-fulfilling prophesies via positive expectations, and adopt a resilient attitude that transforms bad luck into good. My take is that Wiseman's luck doesn't involve being able to affect the flip of a coin; it's not about special abilities or perceptions or powers or control--indeed there's nothing here that's beyond our abilities to explain with science and math. What Wiseman does describe, though, sounds like valuable advice for everyday living.
Oh and one final thought: I throw my shoes at you!
Ranting Boomer, as a group of people, this contention holds that the people in Zimbabwe, are just a bunch of people who are collectively woeing their being, so the "energy of the universe" is taking a mega crap on them with hyperinflation, cholera, a ruthless leader, hunger and assorted other "blessings". So, in order for some Western people to feel better for themselves, the world makes them suffer?
Look, I don't care what people believe, but this is Calvinism twisted to be modern. People people are people cause they deserve it.
Look, I don't care what people believe, but this is Calvinism twisted to be modern. People people are people cause they deserve it.
In the immortal words of Ed Sulllivan, "It's shoe time!"
There are those that postulate: nothing arises from the level of personality. Personality is an effect. We (the Self --- that sense of being that we all share and call “I”) identify with the instruments we use to interact with the world i.e. our personalities and our bodies. Because of this identification, we get very touchy when our views are questioned.
That said: We all have dominion over our universe, whether we believe it our not (or like it or not). The subconscious is our perfect servant (BTW, try this one one: all you can see is your subconscious). The subconscious, unfortunately, lacks discrimination. (That's the problem with perfect servitude.)
The subconscious speaks only in pictures. No talkie words. We supply the discrimination, the world (see above) supplies the pictures. We have choice in only one thing: where we place our attention.
The process of manifestation always follows this form: imagery first, energizing of imagery, finally – manifestation. All (and any) action destroys form and releases energy. The energy flows to that which we hold, most diligently, in our consciousness, through attention. That energy, which has been released, reforms around the template of the imagery we hold.
One could say, it virtually doesn't matter what we do, intention/attention is the key.
That, in a nutshell, is how the world works.
So, a wise one, weeds the mental gardens.
That said: We all have dominion over our universe, whether we believe it our not (or like it or not). The subconscious is our perfect servant (BTW, try this one one: all you can see is your subconscious). The subconscious, unfortunately, lacks discrimination. (That's the problem with perfect servitude.)
The subconscious speaks only in pictures. No talkie words. We supply the discrimination, the world (see above) supplies the pictures. We have choice in only one thing: where we place our attention.
The process of manifestation always follows this form: imagery first, energizing of imagery, finally – manifestation. All (and any) action destroys form and releases energy. The energy flows to that which we hold, most diligently, in our consciousness, through attention. That energy, which has been released, reforms around the template of the imagery we hold.
One could say, it virtually doesn't matter what we do, intention/attention is the key.
That, in a nutshell, is how the world works.
So, a wise one, weeds the mental gardens.
P.S. BBE, this was an “especially” kind post.
Whether it came from Readers Digest or they passed it along from Skeptical Inquirer matters less to me than the fact the article was interesting reading!
One bit did strike my funny bone: DO NOT say the following ("IT could have been worse. You could have been shot in the head" ) to someone in midst of self-pity and seeking sympathy or they just might throw their shoes at YOU!
Laughing, I say, I might throw my shoes at you, BBE, but then I might never get them back! So just imagine I threw my shoes at you.
One bit did strike my funny bone: DO NOT say the following ("IT could have been worse. You could have been shot in the head" ) to someone in midst of self-pity and seeking sympathy or they just might throw their shoes at YOU!
Laughing, I say, I might throw my shoes at you, BBE, but then I might never get them back! So just imagine I threw my shoes at you.
Thank you Catamite. (eating cookie) I'm staying out for sanity's sake.
Stellaa brings up a valid observation and makes a point that might require us to think a little more objectively, especially for those who disagree, about who we are, where we are, how we got here; and why us... rather than someone else?
Imagine growing up in China during Mao, or Russia under Stalin. South East Asia almost any time. Indonesia under Suharto. South America under Hugo Suarez in Bolivia, Augusto Pinochet in Chile, Jorge Videla in Argentina. All terrorists, and most supported in some fashion by the United States. We could have been born behind the Iron Curtain. Or Europe. The whole continent was torn apart by the two big wars. Twenty million dead in the first World War. Something like a hundred million dead in WWII.
In some places if you speak out too openly against the rules or the rulers, whomever they are, they will cut out your tongue; or send a death squad to silence you forever; after torturing you first; and perhaps your family with you. Here in the U.S. we can speak up. That seems to be changing too, and people are beginning to be afraid of our own government. It's scary to consider that slippery slope. History has it's lessons.
In Haiti, people are eating dirt. They've cut all the trees down and all the soil is eroding into the sea; and it's happened in Mesopotamia, and Bangladesh, and El Salvador. It's a grave mistake to overlook how serious the problem of over population really is. Many who live outside our borders do not see us as once we saw ourselves; and yet ironically, the developing nations vainly seek to emulate us; wanting to wallow in extravagance like we have; building ever taller, gulping petrochemicals and abusing their environment, growing genetically engineered crops, gorging on fast food and Coca Cola and the 'luxury' of too many expensive toys... But we have been down that smooth highway. It is a course to gluttony and gout.
However, it is not enough to know such things intellectually, particularly if we continue to be fools for our own excess. If we grow ever fatter and softer, and cannot control our own appetite for more, how can we expect China and India and Brazil and Mexico to behave any differently? The people in those countries are no less deserving than we are.
So why are we here (?) whereas they are there...? Did we do something right in an earlier life? Did we make a better decision before entering another womb to become this incarnation and be who we are today? Have we already lived in some of those places and times (?) and thus vetted for the good life? In India, I've heard that if you live a good life, you can come back as an American.
I have no solid conscious awareness of past lives. But somehow, despite my own demons and dysfunction and less than perfect circumstances, I've managed to find this sense of joy, this bliss; and I give thanks routinely. I believe in serendipity; and truthfully, I've manifested good things because of my attitude and my focus and my thankfulness. I'm sure of it. I know too many people who think negative thoughts and get negative results.
Can this be true of nations as well...?
Interesting question.
Imagine growing up in China during Mao, or Russia under Stalin. South East Asia almost any time. Indonesia under Suharto. South America under Hugo Suarez in Bolivia, Augusto Pinochet in Chile, Jorge Videla in Argentina. All terrorists, and most supported in some fashion by the United States. We could have been born behind the Iron Curtain. Or Europe. The whole continent was torn apart by the two big wars. Twenty million dead in the first World War. Something like a hundred million dead in WWII.
In some places if you speak out too openly against the rules or the rulers, whomever they are, they will cut out your tongue; or send a death squad to silence you forever; after torturing you first; and perhaps your family with you. Here in the U.S. we can speak up. That seems to be changing too, and people are beginning to be afraid of our own government. It's scary to consider that slippery slope. History has it's lessons.
In Haiti, people are eating dirt. They've cut all the trees down and all the soil is eroding into the sea; and it's happened in Mesopotamia, and Bangladesh, and El Salvador. It's a grave mistake to overlook how serious the problem of over population really is. Many who live outside our borders do not see us as once we saw ourselves; and yet ironically, the developing nations vainly seek to emulate us; wanting to wallow in extravagance like we have; building ever taller, gulping petrochemicals and abusing their environment, growing genetically engineered crops, gorging on fast food and Coca Cola and the 'luxury' of too many expensive toys... But we have been down that smooth highway. It is a course to gluttony and gout.
However, it is not enough to know such things intellectually, particularly if we continue to be fools for our own excess. If we grow ever fatter and softer, and cannot control our own appetite for more, how can we expect China and India and Brazil and Mexico to behave any differently? The people in those countries are no less deserving than we are.
So why are we here (?) whereas they are there...? Did we do something right in an earlier life? Did we make a better decision before entering another womb to become this incarnation and be who we are today? Have we already lived in some of those places and times (?) and thus vetted for the good life? In India, I've heard that if you live a good life, you can come back as an American.
I have no solid conscious awareness of past lives. But somehow, despite my own demons and dysfunction and less than perfect circumstances, I've managed to find this sense of joy, this bliss; and I give thanks routinely. I believe in serendipity; and truthfully, I've manifested good things because of my attitude and my focus and my thankfulness. I'm sure of it. I know too many people who think negative thoughts and get negative results.
Can this be true of nations as well...?
Interesting question.
I prefer the you get some lucky breaks, you get some crappy breaks. You don't deserve either, you just get them. That is fate, that is life that is the muddle. You being rich is not cause you deserved it, neither is you being poor is cause you deserved it. Neither is the case of getting cancer or getting hit by a meteorite. Prepare for the worse, hope for the best and eat fat and drink wine and don't tell others how the deserve this and that. In the end, the universe does not give a flying ef about you, this is what egocentric is. Just enjoy the flickering moments you have and enjoy being an accident with loads of accidents happening to you every day.
Stellaa - if that works for you, then that's just as legit as what
I believe. You have created your own reality.
I believe. You have created your own reality.
I've always been lucky.
There is no fate. there is no luck. there is no satan. there is no god. Life is a meaningless accident.
I'm the DIVA around here.
::cough::
::cough::
Freaky, you are the Diva. You are the Ompholos of the universe. You are the alpha and the omega. You are the a and the zed. That is why the universe is great. Cause, you, are the Diva.
...and that is my reality!
And we are lucky for it, Freaky.
making your own luck. very cool indeed. being open to possibilities. very cool indeed. it is perhaps a certain quality of attention. someone once called this living with "soft eyes."
been a long time since i read reader's digest. thanks.
paula
been a long time since i read reader's digest. thanks.
paula
Thanks for this, BBE. People are never going to be convinced of things that cannot be explained scientifically, but that's OK. At least you dared to show your support for someone who was unfairly attacked for her beliefs. I know you don't want it getting around (it might ruin your reputation,) but you really are a good person.
P.S. WTF is up with the naked guys wearing tube socks at a swimming pool?
P.S. WTF is up with the naked guys wearing tube socks at a swimming pool?
hi bbe,
great post. love it.:) i missed all the drama with this UK person. i am new to OS. but am sorry to hear he/she was attacked. and is the bag lady joking with you? if she is not, wow. crazy business.
mary
great post. love it.:) i missed all the drama with this UK person. i am new to OS. but am sorry to hear he/she was attacked. and is the bag lady joking with you? if she is not, wow. crazy business.
mary
I have not
Ever
worn tube socks while swimming.
Actually, it's rather common knowledge back home.
Newporter's don't wear socks.
Ever
worn tube socks while swimming.
Actually, it's rather common knowledge back home.
Newporter's don't wear socks.
This shit....is complicated. (Feel free to "duh" me at any point.)
First of all, nice one, BBE; the idiot who was so shitty to UK deserves this, at least.
That out of the way, I personally find the "you make your own reality" AND the "stuff just happens" to be too simplistic. The idea that groups of people choose poverty, genocide, etc. is too much for me to bear; however, I don't believe that life is just laid out either and we're supposed to take our medicine.
In my opinion, a positive outlook gives you the appearance of a happier life, and so, you have one, no matter what the circumstances. It's not an absolute, of course, but when I visit my 97 year old grandmother in the nursing home, who's always had a wonderful outlook on life, she is far cheerier than the other eldery there, even though she's lost many faculties, both physical and mental.
Is there luck? Who knows, but what harm does it do for people to hope and believe there is? Optimism is not a curse; nor does it have to be blind. It can be a conscious choice.
Isn't the point of this community to discuss and learn about perspectives regarding the world in many facets? I'm such with the level of intelligence of OS members we can do that respectfully. Or so I hope.
- e.
ps. nice nudes :)
First of all, nice one, BBE; the idiot who was so shitty to UK deserves this, at least.
That out of the way, I personally find the "you make your own reality" AND the "stuff just happens" to be too simplistic. The idea that groups of people choose poverty, genocide, etc. is too much for me to bear; however, I don't believe that life is just laid out either and we're supposed to take our medicine.
In my opinion, a positive outlook gives you the appearance of a happier life, and so, you have one, no matter what the circumstances. It's not an absolute, of course, but when I visit my 97 year old grandmother in the nursing home, who's always had a wonderful outlook on life, she is far cheerier than the other eldery there, even though she's lost many faculties, both physical and mental.
Is there luck? Who knows, but what harm does it do for people to hope and believe there is? Optimism is not a curse; nor does it have to be blind. It can be a conscious choice.
Isn't the point of this community to discuss and learn about perspectives regarding the world in many facets? I'm such with the level of intelligence of OS members we can do that respectfully. Or so I hope.
- e.
ps. nice nudes :)
Quaker, they're from the UK. Seemed appropriate.
Cuevas as in cuevo as in jose is a friend of mine, Sid secretly finds me sexy and this is her vicious way of letting me know.
Cuevas as in cuevo as in jose is a friend of mine, Sid secretly finds me sexy and this is her vicious way of letting me know.
Elliot Scott-While I believe that we do indeed create our own
reality I certainly am not saying that people choose poverty
genocide etc. It happens because of ignorance.
reality I certainly am not saying that people choose poverty
genocide etc. It happens because of ignorance.
Dakinidancer -
I meant no disrespect, of course. I'd be interested to hear more about your perspective on ignorance as a causal factor.
- e.
I meant no disrespect, of course. I'd be interested to hear more about your perspective on ignorance as a causal factor.
- e.
There need to be more naked men.
Elliotscott-I didn't think you were disrespectful. I'll
have to organize my thoughts/feelings regarding
ignorance and reply via email.
have to organize my thoughts/feelings regarding
ignorance and reply via email.
Stellaa... RE: Ranting Boomer, as a group of people, this contention holds that the people in Zimbabwe, are just a bunch of people who are collectively woeing their being, so the "energy of the universe" is taking a mega crap on them with hyperinflation, cholera, a ruthless leader, hunger and assorted other "blessings".
I'm not sure where you get the "woeing their being" part. Possibly from other people that you've had these types of conversations with? Again, a question. Certainly not from me, because that's not what I believe.
Imagine a slider bar. On one end of the slider bar is Jeffrey Dalmer's energy. Evil, ugly energy. On the other side is the Dalai Lama or someone along that line. Pure clean energy. In the middle is a big marker that's neutral. No good, no bad. Just neutral.
At any given time, any person is anywhere along that slider bar. We are not perfect. We are human. We let people and things and circumstance get to us. If someone is yelling in my face, I might slide to the leeward side of neutral and start to feel angry, too. Or I can choose not to let them get to me. Not all people believe they have that choice. I have learned I do. I choose how to feel. But that is not everyone's reality.
The "universe" doesn't dump on people. People dump on people. In some countries, it is horrific. Even here, in a community that is several steps above the overall tone of the Internet, it is still evident.
But here's an experiement. If you start to watch how your day goes when you have sunshine in your smile versus how your day goes when you have anger in your jaw, you might begin to get a very small glimpse of what I'm talking about when I talk about energy.
I'm not sure where you get the "woeing their being" part. Possibly from other people that you've had these types of conversations with? Again, a question. Certainly not from me, because that's not what I believe.
Imagine a slider bar. On one end of the slider bar is Jeffrey Dalmer's energy. Evil, ugly energy. On the other side is the Dalai Lama or someone along that line. Pure clean energy. In the middle is a big marker that's neutral. No good, no bad. Just neutral.
At any given time, any person is anywhere along that slider bar. We are not perfect. We are human. We let people and things and circumstance get to us. If someone is yelling in my face, I might slide to the leeward side of neutral and start to feel angry, too. Or I can choose not to let them get to me. Not all people believe they have that choice. I have learned I do. I choose how to feel. But that is not everyone's reality.
The "universe" doesn't dump on people. People dump on people. In some countries, it is horrific. Even here, in a community that is several steps above the overall tone of the Internet, it is still evident.
But here's an experiement. If you start to watch how your day goes when you have sunshine in your smile versus how your day goes when you have anger in your jaw, you might begin to get a very small glimpse of what I'm talking about when I talk about energy.
I second odette. More nude men would make me feel lucky.
I would guess that you find what you look for and what you expect.
Great post, Blue Eyes. (And I love the new avatar. It is so you.)
I would guess that you find what you look for and what you expect.
Great post, Blue Eyes. (And I love the new avatar. It is so you.)
"But here's an experiement. If you start to watch how your day goes when you have sunshine in your smile versus how your day goes when you have anger in your jaw, you might begin to get a very small glimpse of what I'm talking about when I talk about energy."
Ok, then tell that to the people of Zimbabwe. I am sure their smiles will change the energy of the universe. Or the people in Skid Row in LA or some of the other places. C'mon people, make it work.
Ok, then tell that to the people of Zimbabwe. I am sure their smiles will change the energy of the universe. Or the people in Skid Row in LA or some of the other places. C'mon people, make it work.
I'm sort of scooting around in the middle of all of this. I think that someone does need to be open to good things to have good things happen. People that are positive attract positive people, and thus positive circumstances. People that are buckets of bummer are avoided by most of us. They cut themselves off from good things happening for them. Even when nice things happen to these people, they can find a way to turn it around to make it rotten.
It's harder to wrap my mind around children born into dire circumstances. I can't make the leap that they created that reality for themselves - BUT what it does take to change those circumstances is someone that is capable of seeing a way out of that situation, believing that it can be changed, then inspiring enough people around them to lead their way out of it. So, in a way that is creating a reality through the sheer force that you believe that it should and can be changed. Cutting yourself off from saying that your state of mind can effect great things, you're cutting yourself off from making any changes.
Things aren't this black and white simple, I know. And I'm not exactly communicating coherently. Oh well, I'm off to secret myself an elephant.
It's harder to wrap my mind around children born into dire circumstances. I can't make the leap that they created that reality for themselves - BUT what it does take to change those circumstances is someone that is capable of seeing a way out of that situation, believing that it can be changed, then inspiring enough people around them to lead their way out of it. So, in a way that is creating a reality through the sheer force that you believe that it should and can be changed. Cutting yourself off from saying that your state of mind can effect great things, you're cutting yourself off from making any changes.
Things aren't this black and white simple, I know. And I'm not exactly communicating coherently. Oh well, I'm off to secret myself an elephant.
Stellaa... RE: Ok, then tell that to the people of Zimbabwe.
I'm not talking to people in Zimbabwe, or about people in Zimbabwe... I'm talking to you. Read your next sentence. "I am sure their smiles will change the energy of the universe." The sarcasm is almost palpable, yet you don't know me from a hole in the ground. I don't get that - nor do I need to.
As for people in Zimbabwe, T & D has a great response right under your post. She said I can't make the leap that they created that reality for themselves - BUT what it does take to change those circumstances is someone that is capable of seeing a way out of that situation, believing that it can be changed, then inspiring enough people around them to lead their way out of it.
I believe that with all my heart. I believe that *I* can have enough positive energy to use my half-brain and two hands to change lives for the better. But if I am steeped in anger and sarcasm, will I have the frame of mind to do that?
I'm not talking to people in Zimbabwe, or about people in Zimbabwe... I'm talking to you. Read your next sentence. "I am sure their smiles will change the energy of the universe." The sarcasm is almost palpable, yet you don't know me from a hole in the ground. I don't get that - nor do I need to.
As for people in Zimbabwe, T & D has a great response right under your post. She said I can't make the leap that they created that reality for themselves - BUT what it does take to change those circumstances is someone that is capable of seeing a way out of that situation, believing that it can be changed, then inspiring enough people around them to lead their way out of it.
I believe that with all my heart. I believe that *I* can have enough positive energy to use my half-brain and two hands to change lives for the better. But if I am steeped in anger and sarcasm, will I have the frame of mind to do that?
With all due respect to Freaky's status as the House Diva, I just want to say how gratified I am to know that I am responsible for o'stephanie's feeling lucky and for making my own humble contribution to getting oddete what she feels is needed.
I was not aware at the time of the part their will played in my getting naked on that beach, but I accept it as part of my own reality and am grateful for having had the experience myself.
I was not aware at the time of the part their will played in my getting naked on that beach, but I accept it as part of my own reality and am grateful for having had the experience myself.
bbe,
thanks for clearing up the bag lady thing. i just went to her blog and read her post on being a mother. wow!!! too much. what a life. do you think she is really 78?
did you take your name from the old moody blues song? or was that an old who song? smoked a lot of weed in the 70s and can't remember now.:)
okay, i am off to bed and to dream happy thoughts so that luck will take me to mallorca where i might run into rafa nadal on a beach, naked, and alone, without his girlfriend.:)
seriously, i do believe we can help some of what we do by believing in ourselves and trying to look at the bright side of life.
mary
thanks for clearing up the bag lady thing. i just went to her blog and read her post on being a mother. wow!!! too much. what a life. do you think she is really 78?
did you take your name from the old moody blues song? or was that an old who song? smoked a lot of weed in the 70s and can't remember now.:)
okay, i am off to bed and to dream happy thoughts so that luck will take me to mallorca where i might run into rafa nadal on a beach, naked, and alone, without his girlfriend.:)
seriously, i do believe we can help some of what we do by believing in ourselves and trying to look at the bright side of life.
mary
I'm ashamed to say that I agree with Mr. BBE.
Finding opportunities that present themselves and not giving up at the first roadblock is different from changing the material reality of the universe with your good or bad attitude.
What some do, though I don't think BBE has gone this far, is use these kinds of explanations to explain every
I don't know much about the conflict that started this. I followed the initial discussion and didn't see what the big deal was. Apparently I've missed some key secret emails and some deleted posts.
Finding opportunities that present themselves and not giving up at the first roadblock is different from changing the material reality of the universe with your good or bad attitude.
What some do, though I don't think BBE has gone this far, is use these kinds of explanations to explain every
I don't know much about the conflict that started this. I followed the initial discussion and didn't see what the big deal was. Apparently I've missed some key secret emails and some deleted posts.
Hit return to early. Must be bad luck brought on by my poor attitude!
What I intended to write in paragraph 3:
What some do, though I don't think BBE has gone this far, is use these kinds of explanations to explain every human occurrence. As if no other laws of nature can apply. Those people are lazy and/or simpleminded.
What I intended to write in paragraph 3:
What some do, though I don't think BBE has gone this far, is use these kinds of explanations to explain every human occurrence. As if no other laws of nature can apply. Those people are lazy and/or simpleminded.
Most of you are probably aware of this post with comments, but in case anyone isn't... Once you get past my views in the main post I've linked to, Secret-related views are presented in comments.
Funny thing is, it's not a case of the "secret" people vs the rest of the world. I can only speak for me, but I don't agree with everything presented in the secret any more than I agree with everything presented in catholicism or any other religious philosophy.
Ever notice that when one bad thing happens, it doesn't rain, it pours? Ever notice when you get lucky it's not just one thing, it's like horseshoes up the butt?
Ever notice that a crowd can give off a good feeling or a bad feeling?
IMHO, our brains were made to think, question and learn.
Dang, that makes some people uncomfortable. ;)
Lonnie, you're in big trouble. We're secreting you. lol
Ever notice that when one bad thing happens, it doesn't rain, it pours? Ever notice when you get lucky it's not just one thing, it's like horseshoes up the butt?
Ever notice that a crowd can give off a good feeling or a bad feeling?
IMHO, our brains were made to think, question and learn.
Dang, that makes some people uncomfortable. ;)
Lonnie, you're in big trouble. We're secreting you. lol
Boom, all I know is some o' you must be secreting this naked man stuff pretty hard because I go to bed every night and wake up every morning - a naked man.
Now, I know my wife could be working this part of the secret on me, too, but we've been together 20 years and even though we're not as frisky as we were in the old days, something's going on...
Now, I know my wife could be working this part of the secret on me, too, but we've been together 20 years and even though we're not as frisky as we were in the old days, something's going on...
I throw my shoes at most of these nude photos...they truly clarify the meaning of "Butt Ugly"!
But, I agree with the article...life is better when you put on a happy face, look for the good in all people, and seize opportunities that present themselves.
With that said, I think ole BBE was stuck in a dentist's waiting room or some such place and was reading everything and anything to pass the time and hit pay dirt when he found this article. (RD is definitely not something BBE would ever seek out on his own.) Was it a root canal that led BBE to this most excellent post? He certainly recognizes opportunity...even when he's under personal duress...guess he's one of the lucky ones. At least he hasn't dropped that bad-assed Harley with the blue-eyed skull accessories. One can say many things about BBE, but I don't think brain damaged is one of them.
MTK...no way is BBE the bag lady...someone is trying to ride bitch seat w/BBE. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Conga-rats, BBE. Rated...but not for the butt ugly nudes.
Wish I had more time to play with all you good OS people, but I can only drop in perodically and see what naughty and nice things you've been up to. Keep up the good work...I enjoy my visits.
But, I agree with the article...life is better when you put on a happy face, look for the good in all people, and seize opportunities that present themselves.
With that said, I think ole BBE was stuck in a dentist's waiting room or some such place and was reading everything and anything to pass the time and hit pay dirt when he found this article. (RD is definitely not something BBE would ever seek out on his own.) Was it a root canal that led BBE to this most excellent post? He certainly recognizes opportunity...even when he's under personal duress...guess he's one of the lucky ones. At least he hasn't dropped that bad-assed Harley with the blue-eyed skull accessories. One can say many things about BBE, but I don't think brain damaged is one of them.
MTK...no way is BBE the bag lady...someone is trying to ride bitch seat w/BBE. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Conga-rats, BBE. Rated...but not for the butt ugly nudes.
Wish I had more time to play with all you good OS people, but I can only drop in perodically and see what naughty and nice things you've been up to. Keep up the good work...I enjoy my visits.
No one is going to accomplish anything if their intention is merely to change someone's mind, especially about something spiritual in nature, such as this. The dichotomy is so vast that the disbelievers don't even accept the spiritual nature of the question.
Those who believe would like to think that mere words will convince, as if logic prescribed by one is anywhere near the logic held by the other. As for those who don't believe, the sarcasm is palpable, as is the 'logic,' which they find unacceptable. Having no spiritual connection to the phenomenon, they can easily forget their manners; and are perfectly willing to make objectionable remarks. They are, as I posted earlier, even threatened by another's faith in the unseen.
Rob, I posted near the very end of your blog, and I think that comment is relevant here as well as there.
We all respect each other, despite this difference in opinion. We might better give thanks for that, and repair to our respective camps, where we can continue manifesting, or not. The world apparently needs both persuasions, so let's accept our differences and be thankful for our place in the universe, wherever it is we find ourselves. It's not as though there is a line to cross.
It doesn't appear as though any progress will be made here.
Those who believe would like to think that mere words will convince, as if logic prescribed by one is anywhere near the logic held by the other. As for those who don't believe, the sarcasm is palpable, as is the 'logic,' which they find unacceptable. Having no spiritual connection to the phenomenon, they can easily forget their manners; and are perfectly willing to make objectionable remarks. They are, as I posted earlier, even threatened by another's faith in the unseen.
Rob, I posted near the very end of your blog, and I think that comment is relevant here as well as there.
We all respect each other, despite this difference in opinion. We might better give thanks for that, and repair to our respective camps, where we can continue manifesting, or not. The world apparently needs both persuasions, so let's accept our differences and be thankful for our place in the universe, wherever it is we find ourselves. It's not as though there is a line to cross.
It doesn't appear as though any progress will be made here.
Rated.
Ya know, this has been an amazing, thought provoking post, here. I am blown away by all the deep areas that our fellow OSian's have touched on in this soul searching subject. Quite opening of mind, intellect and spirit, I observe.
I would initially, on the surface, rebut Stella's comments, but upon further allowing myself to listen, absorb her thinking and reasoning, I am getting it. Stella has a strong point from the perspective that most of us in this country or hemisphere, actually, do not have the knowledge or scope to know what it is like to be from Zimbabwe or any other war torn, impoverished, genicidal, 3rd world country where starvation, increased death rate, little or no education, no concept of food, shelter and security exists. Where I veer off here is, that the people she emphasizes with over the horrifying circumstances from which they had no choice, are completely unaware of the dire, negative circumstances, into which they were born. They have no comparison to make as we do here.They have no social strata, no model outside of their norm, which to them is merely the life to which they were born and from which they choose to exist in the best way that they know how, day to day. They do not cry over their circumstances or read newspapers, blogs, watch tv or rant to their neighbor about how terrible their lives are "compared to others." They have no concept of this, therefore they are content, to the extent that they surrvive another day, find another paltry meal, which to them is a blessing and a victory over starvation.
I would initially, on the surface, rebut Stella's comments, but upon further allowing myself to listen, absorb her thinking and reasoning, I am getting it. Stella has a strong point from the perspective that most of us in this country or hemisphere, actually, do not have the knowledge or scope to know what it is like to be from Zimbabwe or any other war torn, impoverished, genicidal, 3rd world country where starvation, increased death rate, little or no education, no concept of food, shelter and security exists. Where I veer off here is, that the people she emphasizes with over the horrifying circumstances from which they had no choice, are completely unaware of the dire, negative circumstances, into which they were born. They have no comparison to make as we do here.They have no social strata, no model outside of their norm, which to them is merely the life to which they were born and from which they choose to exist in the best way that they know how, day to day. They do not cry over their circumstances or read newspapers, blogs, watch tv or rant to their neighbor about how terrible their lives are "compared to others." They have no concept of this, therefore they are content, to the extent that they surrvive another day, find another paltry meal, which to them is a blessing and a victory over starvation.
There's been a lot more heat than light, that's for sure.
Ok, if I accept your premise you have to accept that the other side of your premise is that "bad luck" such as "cancer", "murder", "accidents", "depression" "poverty" are self inflicted. It's all those sour pusses walking around not attracting positive energy. So, next time you see someone suffering tell them that their "ignorance" made them suffer. You cannot have the positive part of the equation without owning the other side. Because you see, energy has two actions, positive and negative.
OOPS! I prematurely posted my comment. Then the phone rang.
I guess, what I'am trying to say is, that while I really understand where Stella is coming from, really, I possess the opposite view, as it is my experience in this life that we are all pure energy, positive or negative. We, who are fortunate to be educated to know the difference, can make choices that either benefit our lives or make us more miserable by the day. The nations or people who know no better, can still find joy in the simplest things, despite pathetic life circumstances, disease, enslavement, early death or plight we onlu read about. They do have happiness in the world they create, within the microcosm that is their existence. It is not for us to judge what is horrific for them because it is unimaginable to us. Their wisdom is something we cannot nor ever will, fathom. It is like living on different planets in a different time continuem. As much as we cannot know and understand everything that is our own life experience, we cannot pretend of predict what is the unsustainable existence of others. It is their reality and one which they have the power to control, from within a structure that is all they have ever known.
I guess, what I'am trying to say is, that while I really understand where Stella is coming from, really, I possess the opposite view, as it is my experience in this life that we are all pure energy, positive or negative. We, who are fortunate to be educated to know the difference, can make choices that either benefit our lives or make us more miserable by the day. The nations or people who know no better, can still find joy in the simplest things, despite pathetic life circumstances, disease, enslavement, early death or plight we onlu read about. They do have happiness in the world they create, within the microcosm that is their existence. It is not for us to judge what is horrific for them because it is unimaginable to us. Their wisdom is something we cannot nor ever will, fathom. It is like living on different planets in a different time continuem. As much as we cannot know and understand everything that is our own life experience, we cannot pretend of predict what is the unsustainable existence of others. It is their reality and one which they have the power to control, from within a structure that is all they have ever known.
Cathy, I am not judging, there are some absolutes: cholera, hunger, AIDS and genocide for example are not relative. They are absolute bad things in the human experience spectrum.
Stella,
I have no argument with you at all, I understand your points and do not intend for you to take my general views on perspectives as some judgement on your part. On the contrary. I believe that our perspectives, in general, are skued, as we have so little if no, experience with the devasting things you mention. I am merely, but not effectively, trying to whitness to both perspectives, while taking a strong, individual stand, based solely on my own life experience. Both views are valid. They may have different outcomes withour own realities. Your points are true for many, for sure. Just allow that there is another view which is true for me and for others as well.
I have no argument with you at all, I understand your points and do not intend for you to take my general views on perspectives as some judgement on your part. On the contrary. I believe that our perspectives, in general, are skued, as we have so little if no, experience with the devasting things you mention. I am merely, but not effectively, trying to whitness to both perspectives, while taking a strong, individual stand, based solely on my own life experience. Both views are valid. They may have different outcomes withour own realities. Your points are true for many, for sure. Just allow that there is another view which is true for me and for others as well.
Stellaa: If I see a person suffering, I won't tell them it's because of ignorance, I will do my best to help them. Likewise, if I see a person
or an animal getting abused, I won't think that it's their bad karma, I will intervene. No one is saying they deserve it. At least I'm not.
To say they deserve it is a judgement.
or an animal getting abused, I won't think that it's their bad karma, I will intervene. No one is saying they deserve it. At least I'm not.
To say they deserve it is a judgement.
This is where I get all tangled up. I agree with Stellaa about disease and other circumstances. I don't cotton to the idea that we manifest all the bad and all the good the is bestowed on us. Having said that though, as someone that is rather pragmatic, I do think a large majority of who and what we ultimately become is all because of our choices, and many of our choices are made based on what we have defined ourselves being. And that, in a way, is manifesting a future for ourselves.
I just don't think that you have to buy into all of any one doctrine. I would never tell a child that had cancer that it was a shame that they manifested this disease for themselves. That's ridiculous. But I won't discount that having a positive attitude and a firm belief that you can and will do something isn't a huge necessary piece in achieving. That's not so far off from basic advice you see around everyday. That whole "dress for the job you want, not the one you have" thing is exactly that. It's a way for you to project yourself into the position you want to one day hold. "You have to love yourself before you can truly love someone else," exactly the same thing. If you want good things to happen for you, you have to at least have some measure that you deserve it and are worthy and prepared for it.
I just don't think that you have to buy into all of any one doctrine. I would never tell a child that had cancer that it was a shame that they manifested this disease for themselves. That's ridiculous. But I won't discount that having a positive attitude and a firm belief that you can and will do something isn't a huge necessary piece in achieving. That's not so far off from basic advice you see around everyday. That whole "dress for the job you want, not the one you have" thing is exactly that. It's a way for you to project yourself into the position you want to one day hold. "You have to love yourself before you can truly love someone else," exactly the same thing. If you want good things to happen for you, you have to at least have some measure that you deserve it and are worthy and prepared for it.
Skeptic Turtle: "What some do...is use these explanations to
explain every human occurance. As if no other laws of nature
can apply. Those people are lazy and/or simpleminded."
Am I lazy and/or simpleminded because I take responsibility
for my life? Just what laws of nature are you referring to?
explain every human occurance. As if no other laws of nature
can apply. Those people are lazy and/or simpleminded."
Am I lazy and/or simpleminded because I take responsibility
for my life? Just what laws of nature are you referring to?
stellaa has my brain in her hands. While I'd love to say more, I really can't do anything or say anything she hasn't already done.
OTOH, I can't help but feel the need to say, there's a HUGE difference between a) taking the lemons life gives you and making lemonade vs. b) believing your thoughts themselves were in fact the very things that brought forth the existence of those lemons in the first place.
OTOH, I can't help but feel the need to say, there's a HUGE difference between a) taking the lemons life gives you and making lemonade vs. b) believing your thoughts themselves were in fact the very things that brought forth the existence of those lemons in the first place.
They are absolute bad things in the human experience spectrum.
Yes, there is no disputing that there are bad things and good things and everything in the middle in a reality of extremes such as we experience in this time and space based existence on Earth.
Ranting Boomer writes:
"Imagine a slider bar. On one end of the slider bar is Jeffrey Dalmer's energy. Evil, ugly energy. On the other side is the Dalai Lama or someone along that line. Pure clean energy. In the middle is a big marker that's neutral. No good, no bad. Just neutral. This is also true for the most part.
Cathy Gast Feroe writes: that the people she emphasizes with over the horrifying circumstances from which they had no choice, are completely unaware of the dire, negative circumstances, into which they were born. They have no comparison to make as we do here.They have no social strata, no model outside of their norm, which to them is merely the life to which they were born and from which they choose to exist in the best way that they know how, day to day.
This is also true with the caveat that yes, they do suffer terribly, but they do not know too much of a better life. So they do good the best they can within the circumstances in which they find themselves. Yes, they chose BEFORE they came to this Earth to have this experience for all its positives and negatives.
Even though we chose all must choose to come to this planet, we still have free will here to right any wrongs we perceive and to do even more good than we may have imagined ahead of time.
Why would anyone choose this life, to do this to themselves with regard to illness, suffering and death? That is the hard part, the part that needs more explanation. We do not need to question "Why is it that way" because it just is as it was designed to be. The questions as to why such a design woould be created as a space for God's creations to live is the crux of the matter.
Does anyone want to take the next step? For the second night in a row, I am wide awake at 2 AM -- not the norm for me by any stretch. I want to write about the why of our reality, so eventually I will. I feel compelled to find the beginning to be able to tell about the beginning and the "whys" for the things that trouble Stellaa about our reality. It is not simple to do or I would have answered you better than I have done so far.
Yes, there is no disputing that there are bad things and good things and everything in the middle in a reality of extremes such as we experience in this time and space based existence on Earth.
Ranting Boomer writes:
"Imagine a slider bar. On one end of the slider bar is Jeffrey Dalmer's energy. Evil, ugly energy. On the other side is the Dalai Lama or someone along that line. Pure clean energy. In the middle is a big marker that's neutral. No good, no bad. Just neutral. This is also true for the most part.
Cathy Gast Feroe writes: that the people she emphasizes with over the horrifying circumstances from which they had no choice, are completely unaware of the dire, negative circumstances, into which they were born. They have no comparison to make as we do here.They have no social strata, no model outside of their norm, which to them is merely the life to which they were born and from which they choose to exist in the best way that they know how, day to day.
This is also true with the caveat that yes, they do suffer terribly, but they do not know too much of a better life. So they do good the best they can within the circumstances in which they find themselves. Yes, they chose BEFORE they came to this Earth to have this experience for all its positives and negatives.
Even though we chose all must choose to come to this planet, we still have free will here to right any wrongs we perceive and to do even more good than we may have imagined ahead of time.
Why would anyone choose this life, to do this to themselves with regard to illness, suffering and death? That is the hard part, the part that needs more explanation. We do not need to question "Why is it that way" because it just is as it was designed to be. The questions as to why such a design woould be created as a space for God's creations to live is the crux of the matter.
Does anyone want to take the next step? For the second night in a row, I am wide awake at 2 AM -- not the norm for me by any stretch. I want to write about the why of our reality, so eventually I will. I feel compelled to find the beginning to be able to tell about the beginning and the "whys" for the things that trouble Stellaa about our reality. It is not simple to do or I would have answered you better than I have done so far.
As I said on UK's post, few of us doubt a positive mental attitude leads to a happier, richer and possibly longer life. But I don't believe for one second you buy that crap about controlling elevators with your will or wishes or whatever the Law of Attraction calls its hokey-doke.
Oh, lalucas, you're in my Friend File for as long as such a thing exists, but...when you say things like this, I simply cannot grok you.
"Yes, they chose BEFORE they came to this Earth to have this experience for all its positives and negatives.
Even though we chose all must choose to come to this planet, we still have free will here to right any wrongs we perceive and to do even more good than we may have imagined ahead of time."
Without falling into the tempting well of sarcasm, I really just have to say: It must be incredibly comforting to believe this. INCREDIBLY comforting. Just as comforting as believing that some skyfather is keeping his eye on you, knows when you are sleeping, knows when you're awake, knows when you've been bad or good, and cares whether your football team wins on Sunday.
Until I see any evidence whatsoever of either theory, OTOH, I will continue to conceive of both evidence-less belief systems as necessary psychologically compensatory constructs that help to lend some coping mechanisms and ultimate feeling of "meaning" to an existence that is, in the end, as mathematically random as the placement of one particular grain of sand on one particular beach on the western coast of Africa.
Not saying I don't love ya...just saying, it's pronouncements like this that give some of us great pause and make us think perhaps the adherents of this belief system haven't really given it the in-depth intellectual plumbing it seems to deserve.
"Yes, they chose BEFORE they came to this Earth to have this experience for all its positives and negatives.
Even though we chose all must choose to come to this planet, we still have free will here to right any wrongs we perceive and to do even more good than we may have imagined ahead of time."
Without falling into the tempting well of sarcasm, I really just have to say: It must be incredibly comforting to believe this. INCREDIBLY comforting. Just as comforting as believing that some skyfather is keeping his eye on you, knows when you are sleeping, knows when you're awake, knows when you've been bad or good, and cares whether your football team wins on Sunday.
Until I see any evidence whatsoever of either theory, OTOH, I will continue to conceive of both evidence-less belief systems as necessary psychologically compensatory constructs that help to lend some coping mechanisms and ultimate feeling of "meaning" to an existence that is, in the end, as mathematically random as the placement of one particular grain of sand on one particular beach on the western coast of Africa.
Not saying I don't love ya...just saying, it's pronouncements like this that give some of us great pause and make us think perhaps the adherents of this belief system haven't really given it the in-depth intellectual plumbing it seems to deserve.
I see creation as an ongoing thing. Every moment is a moment
of creation. So, I'll just go ahead and say it, one does manifest
the lemons or whatever.
When I speak of ignorance, I'm talking Soul ignorance. Third Dimensional Reality is the most difficult reality to master.
Spirit forgets itself in matter. Each lifetime is a step towards
mastery of physical reality.There are multitudes of beings in
other dimensions who have never manifested in the Third Dimension and stand in awe of those who have.
of creation. So, I'll just go ahead and say it, one does manifest
the lemons or whatever.
When I speak of ignorance, I'm talking Soul ignorance. Third Dimensional Reality is the most difficult reality to master.
Spirit forgets itself in matter. Each lifetime is a step towards
mastery of physical reality.There are multitudes of beings in
other dimensions who have never manifested in the Third Dimension and stand in awe of those who have.
Verbal - Intellectualizing will only get you so far. The mind
is another thing to be mastered.
is another thing to be mastered.
Still need to be more naked men ...
I'm very, very tired as my child is ill (certain that her 'negative' energy didn't bring that on--my guess would be a virus, which is another living creature with a determination of its own), and I'm trying to grade in anticipation of doctor visits, but I see this argument is still going strong.
In the comments on Rob's, the only place I actually made comments earlier, I basically said I sit on the fence. However, I realize I only sit on the fence in part. Respectfully, I do not believe that someone who is ignorant of the energy he or she projects brings on bad things happening. I do not. In fact, while it might be true that being open to good things brings one the opportunity to find good things should they exist/come around, it does not then follow that they will, indeed, come around.
I don't know about karma or reincarnation. Those are something else again, related to this but not this at all.
I feel that a large piece is missing from the puzzle here. That piece is the realization that other beings do not exist for one person's edification necessarily. In fact, many other beings have an agenda of their own and go about that agenda without regard to human beings. And human beings are remarkably like this with each other. Perhaps there is a grand design. I have no idea. But I do know that the workings inside others, including both human and non-human beings can affect my life without my permission. Viruses and bacteria, for example. Even up to psychopathic killers, who are human. I cannot control those other people. I cannot control their actions. And so, sometimes, they bump up against me. Nothing personal usually. It just happens. And those 'bumps' sometimes change my direction whether I was feeling positive or not.
And don't even get me started on nature. Natural disasters, I think, happen as they must, and sometimes, people get caught up in them. But I don't think an entire town in the South or midwest was being negative enough to attract the tornado that destroyed their town. And that has surely happened. Did those in the tsunami attract their deaths?
I must confess, that 'ignorant' stuff reminds me very much of my older, fundamentalist relatives lamenting the 'savages' of other countries who would never be 'saved' because of their ignorance. That viewpoint always horrified me. I'm certain that there is no intention towards that here, but it is reminiscent enough for me to remark on it and say I feel it is a bit on the hinky side for me.
There's a bit of a leaning here towards solipsism, and unless you're Freaky Troll, that can be a little tricky.
And now, I'm going to bow out of these discussions permanently, which is probably for the best. I'm glad we all have beliefs. That's good and healthy and nice. But I'd like to leave this one to manifest on its own for awhile. You guys have a nice discussion. I hope no one becomes angry or disrespectful, or bitterly hurt, but no one person can control that fully.
I'm very, very tired as my child is ill (certain that her 'negative' energy didn't bring that on--my guess would be a virus, which is another living creature with a determination of its own), and I'm trying to grade in anticipation of doctor visits, but I see this argument is still going strong.
In the comments on Rob's, the only place I actually made comments earlier, I basically said I sit on the fence. However, I realize I only sit on the fence in part. Respectfully, I do not believe that someone who is ignorant of the energy he or she projects brings on bad things happening. I do not. In fact, while it might be true that being open to good things brings one the opportunity to find good things should they exist/come around, it does not then follow that they will, indeed, come around.
I don't know about karma or reincarnation. Those are something else again, related to this but not this at all.
I feel that a large piece is missing from the puzzle here. That piece is the realization that other beings do not exist for one person's edification necessarily. In fact, many other beings have an agenda of their own and go about that agenda without regard to human beings. And human beings are remarkably like this with each other. Perhaps there is a grand design. I have no idea. But I do know that the workings inside others, including both human and non-human beings can affect my life without my permission. Viruses and bacteria, for example. Even up to psychopathic killers, who are human. I cannot control those other people. I cannot control their actions. And so, sometimes, they bump up against me. Nothing personal usually. It just happens. And those 'bumps' sometimes change my direction whether I was feeling positive or not.
And don't even get me started on nature. Natural disasters, I think, happen as they must, and sometimes, people get caught up in them. But I don't think an entire town in the South or midwest was being negative enough to attract the tornado that destroyed their town. And that has surely happened. Did those in the tsunami attract their deaths?
I must confess, that 'ignorant' stuff reminds me very much of my older, fundamentalist relatives lamenting the 'savages' of other countries who would never be 'saved' because of their ignorance. That viewpoint always horrified me. I'm certain that there is no intention towards that here, but it is reminiscent enough for me to remark on it and say I feel it is a bit on the hinky side for me.
There's a bit of a leaning here towards solipsism, and unless you're Freaky Troll, that can be a little tricky.
And now, I'm going to bow out of these discussions permanently, which is probably for the best. I'm glad we all have beliefs. That's good and healthy and nice. But I'd like to leave this one to manifest on its own for awhile. You guys have a nice discussion. I hope no one becomes angry or disrespectful, or bitterly hurt, but no one person can control that fully.
When I say ignorance, I don't mean it in a pejorative way.
I just mean as in not knowing. There are things I am ignorant
of, it doesn't make me any less. I am not looking to save anyone
except maybe to help them with their physical needs. Each
person has their own agenda, every one's agenda is as valid as
mine.
I just mean as in not knowing. There are things I am ignorant
of, it doesn't make me any less. I am not looking to save anyone
except maybe to help them with their physical needs. Each
person has their own agenda, every one's agenda is as valid as
mine.
The movie "The Secret" did the world a disservice in one way. It divided people. People in the "don't believe in the Secret" camp think there's 2 camps.... their "don't believe" camp and the "do believe" camp. There's a 3rd campground, too. The people who believe some of it, but not all of it.
I do not think a hungry child can 'wish for' food and make it appear.
I do not think a poverty stricken person in a poverty stricken country 'did it to themselves.'
I think if Rhonda had spent a year in a poverty stricken country, she might have thought differently. I think if she'd spent several years as an open home to latch key kids on the wrong side of the tracks (like I did) she might have had a slightly altered perspective.
Yet all I have to do is talk about energy levels, and I'm dumped into the "crazy, secret-believer' camp by those in the non believers camp. And that's sad, really.
Because I hear what you're saying. I just don't think you hear what *I* am saying.
I do not think a hungry child can 'wish for' food and make it appear.
I do not think a poverty stricken person in a poverty stricken country 'did it to themselves.'
I think if Rhonda had spent a year in a poverty stricken country, she might have thought differently. I think if she'd spent several years as an open home to latch key kids on the wrong side of the tracks (like I did) she might have had a slightly altered perspective.
Yet all I have to do is talk about energy levels, and I'm dumped into the "crazy, secret-believer' camp by those in the non believers camp. And that's sad, really.
Because I hear what you're saying. I just don't think you hear what *I* am saying.
Interesting debate.
I know this is flying off in another direction...but, why is anyone taking seriously criticism that involves the use of "satanic" or "satanist"? Is this what Umbrellakinesis is upset over?
Hell fire save the matches and call me devil! What a backass world.
I know this is flying off in another direction...but, why is anyone taking seriously criticism that involves the use of "satanic" or "satanist"? Is this what Umbrellakinesis is upset over?
Hell fire save the matches and call me devil! What a backass world.
I hear you, ranting boomer. I'll summarize the different views I've heard, as I understand them, using an example of finding a parking place on a busy street:
Being optimistic and thinking positive thoughts can help you notice that a car is just about to pull out, leaving a spot for you. You didn't do anything to make the spot appear, but you were prepared for it.
Visualizing that you'll get a parking space can mean "manifesting" a parking space, in some cases; your thoughts influenced the universe such that a parking place appeared for you. Alternatively, your visualization caused the universe to influence you so that your timing was perfect for getting a parking space. Or perhaps both.
I think the former is a better explanation than the latter, as I presume you would, ranting boomer. Some others may think the latter explanation is better than the former, and yet others may think that the latter subsumes the former (i.e. that visualizing entails positive thinking). I imagine that Secret-believers fall into this last camp, though I'm not sure. I hope what I've written is right.
Being optimistic and thinking positive thoughts can help you notice that a car is just about to pull out, leaving a spot for you. You didn't do anything to make the spot appear, but you were prepared for it.
Visualizing that you'll get a parking space can mean "manifesting" a parking space, in some cases; your thoughts influenced the universe such that a parking place appeared for you. Alternatively, your visualization caused the universe to influence you so that your timing was perfect for getting a parking space. Or perhaps both.
I think the former is a better explanation than the latter, as I presume you would, ranting boomer. Some others may think the latter explanation is better than the former, and yet others may think that the latter subsumes the former (i.e. that visualizing entails positive thinking). I imagine that Secret-believers fall into this last camp, though I'm not sure. I hope what I've written is right.
lol, Rob. Okay, using the parking spot as an example.
Driver A pulls into the mall parking lot and starts grumbling. Dammit. Look at this f'ing parking lot. I should know better than to go to the mall on a Saturday in December. I'm never going to find a f'ing parking spot. (stares angrily at all the cars) I'm going to have to park in the f'ing back. Blah, blah, freaking, blah.
So Driver A parks in the back. And as he/she sees someone pulling into a close parking spot, further bitches about everyone else getting all the luck.
Driver B pulls into the mall. Sees all the cars. Shrugs and says there's always people arriving and leaving, a spot will open up. No biggie. Just watch the pavement for lights coming on. Driver B cruises the end for a few minutes and sees the reflection of a set of lights come on. As he/she pulls into the close parking spot, he/she muses about how he/she always gets lucky.
Or maybe driver B thinks he/she "manifested" the spot. Whatever. I don't care as much about the words. In this part of the world, our attitude/energy can help determine our result.
Which is kind of what BBE started out saying. lol.
Driver A pulls into the mall parking lot and starts grumbling. Dammit. Look at this f'ing parking lot. I should know better than to go to the mall on a Saturday in December. I'm never going to find a f'ing parking spot. (stares angrily at all the cars) I'm going to have to park in the f'ing back. Blah, blah, freaking, blah.
So Driver A parks in the back. And as he/she sees someone pulling into a close parking spot, further bitches about everyone else getting all the luck.
Driver B pulls into the mall. Sees all the cars. Shrugs and says there's always people arriving and leaving, a spot will open up. No biggie. Just watch the pavement for lights coming on. Driver B cruises the end for a few minutes and sees the reflection of a set of lights come on. As he/she pulls into the close parking spot, he/she muses about how he/she always gets lucky.
Or maybe driver B thinks he/she "manifested" the spot. Whatever. I don't care as much about the words. In this part of the world, our attitude/energy can help determine our result.
Which is kind of what BBE started out saying. lol.
BBE: You never stop surprising me. Always love to read your stuff.
Oh, Rob. "I throw my shoes at you" is just hillarious. I can't stop laughing. I predict that phrase will become the new "Can't we all just get along?"
rated
Oh, Rob. "I throw my shoes at you" is just hillarious. I can't stop laughing. I predict that phrase will become the new "Can't we all just get along?"
rated
Or maybe driver B thinks he/she "manifested" the spot. Whatever. I don't care as much about the words. In this part of the world, our attitude/energy can help determine our result.
Actually, ranting boomer, this explains why you were "dumped into the 'crazy, secret-believer' camp by those in the non believers camp." I think the "whatever" can be important. Here's why: I first starting hearing about The Secret on OS, or related ideas, in the context of someone asking for information about a specific medical condition. One of the responses was along the lines, "Reality depends on your beliefs--believe that you don't have condition X, and you won't." In that kind of situation, I think it's perfectly reasonable to say, "I hope no one actually follows that bit of advice." And this situation might also give insight into a question dynomyte has asked, about non-believers appearing to feel threatened by specific beliefs--I don't feel threatened, myself, but when there's the potential for harm being done by what I consider unjustified beliefs, I might speak up. Because it starts to matter when beliefs lead to choices.
Actually, ranting boomer, this explains why you were "dumped into the 'crazy, secret-believer' camp by those in the non believers camp." I think the "whatever" can be important. Here's why: I first starting hearing about The Secret on OS, or related ideas, in the context of someone asking for information about a specific medical condition. One of the responses was along the lines, "Reality depends on your beliefs--believe that you don't have condition X, and you won't." In that kind of situation, I think it's perfectly reasonable to say, "I hope no one actually follows that bit of advice." And this situation might also give insight into a question dynomyte has asked, about non-believers appearing to feel threatened by specific beliefs--I don't feel threatened, myself, but when there's the potential for harm being done by what I consider unjustified beliefs, I might speak up. Because it starts to matter when beliefs lead to choices.
At the macro level, let's not forget that someone trying to "manifest their reality" is why we went to war in Iraq. The belief that God or the Universe is on your side - while simultaneously and paradoxically believing you control events with the power of your own will is dangerous -- period.
And at the risk of repeating myself ad infinitum, believing that you will make the best of whatever life hands you, is a healthy, usually productive attitude.
And at the risk of repeating myself ad infinitum, believing that you will make the best of whatever life hands you, is a healthy, usually productive attitude.
Rob... beliefs always affect choices. We all see life through our own lens of perception and make decisions based on what we believe.
"Reality depends on your beliefs--believe that you don't have condition X, and you won't." -- to me that's not even in the same national park, nevermind campground.
I have an incurable disease. Not life threatening, just causes a lot of pain. Doesn't much matter what I 'believe' - the xrays show those danged cells growing where they're not supposed to grow.
I do, however, believe that I can deal with it. I do believe that I can meditate my way past most of the pain and I do believe that when it's necessary, I can take a pain med and get past it. I do believe it doesn't define my life or who I am.
I do believe that the inconvenience of occassionally blacking out when I worked in the corporate world prompted me to become self employed and created a work situation that I love with all my being.
I do believe if I was negative about it, wailing about my lot in life, it would be a lot worse.
Am I preaching to the choir yet? lol
"Reality depends on your beliefs--believe that you don't have condition X, and you won't." -- to me that's not even in the same national park, nevermind campground.
I have an incurable disease. Not life threatening, just causes a lot of pain. Doesn't much matter what I 'believe' - the xrays show those danged cells growing where they're not supposed to grow.
I do, however, believe that I can deal with it. I do believe that I can meditate my way past most of the pain and I do believe that when it's necessary, I can take a pain med and get past it. I do believe it doesn't define my life or who I am.
I do believe that the inconvenience of occassionally blacking out when I worked in the corporate world prompted me to become self employed and created a work situation that I love with all my being.
I do believe if I was negative about it, wailing about my lot in life, it would be a lot worse.
Am I preaching to the choir yet? lol
You sound like quite a rational person, ranting boomer. (That's intended as a compliment.) Best of luck with the situation you're in.
I tend to look at this as a political/economic issue and not spiritual. The people of the Secret, aided by Oprah, pulled a fast one that made loads of bucks by pillaging ideas from ancient philosophies and religions of other cultures.
Western beings, in a hunger for meaning (spirituality) running away from their cultural spiritual traditions, buy this packaging. Even the Dalai Llama has asked westerners to not become Budhist ad look to their culture.
Why, cause it satisfies the notion of control. We have convinced ourselves that we can control our destiny and all outcomes. We can control our children's destiny, we can control our relationships, our health, our joy. The desire for western control has made us crazy.
Humans can have courage or grace, we can face negative events with courage and have grace when we are blessed with good events. We have simplified the world into positive and negative energy and that we can control it. To me this is not spiritual, this is a mechanical construct that reduces the human to a conduit for mechanical functions and none of the poetry of humanity in all its manifestations. There is no self reflection in energy fields, there is self reflection in human conduct. There is free will that can choose justice or injustice, kindness or cruelty. These are the choices we make. It's not an energy out there that we choose to put in us that will reveal the right path. Hard choices filled with booby traps that we have to maneuver. I get pissed when I am reduced to an energy field. Energy is binary. Humanity is complex and nuanced. I am not controlling anything, I need to navigate complex paths and practice self reflection.
Western beings, in a hunger for meaning (spirituality) running away from their cultural spiritual traditions, buy this packaging. Even the Dalai Llama has asked westerners to not become Budhist ad look to their culture.
Why, cause it satisfies the notion of control. We have convinced ourselves that we can control our destiny and all outcomes. We can control our children's destiny, we can control our relationships, our health, our joy. The desire for western control has made us crazy.
Humans can have courage or grace, we can face negative events with courage and have grace when we are blessed with good events. We have simplified the world into positive and negative energy and that we can control it. To me this is not spiritual, this is a mechanical construct that reduces the human to a conduit for mechanical functions and none of the poetry of humanity in all its manifestations. There is no self reflection in energy fields, there is self reflection in human conduct. There is free will that can choose justice or injustice, kindness or cruelty. These are the choices we make. It's not an energy out there that we choose to put in us that will reveal the right path. Hard choices filled with booby traps that we have to maneuver. I get pissed when I am reduced to an energy field. Energy is binary. Humanity is complex and nuanced. I am not controlling anything, I need to navigate complex paths and practice self reflection.
Stellaa... I agree that the Secret made a boatload of money pillaging ideas from ancient philosophies. Incomplete ones, at that. Written for westerners. Westerners have a huge need for control.
Energy isn't something you "are." It's something you have, just like you have fingers, toes and a smile. When I talk of energy, I don't mean in the way of reducing people TO their energy, but recognizing that it's part of them.
My ex had rage issues. (As do many alcoholics and addicts, of which he was both) In the midst of rage, his "energy" was different than it would be later, when he calmed down. Rage energy and peaceful energy aren't remotely the same. You know?
Often times with humans, the way we think affects our energy, which then affects our behaviour, which then affects how we think. It becomes a cycle that can spiral us up or spiral us down.
Rob... I'm laughing now. Thank you.
Energy isn't something you "are." It's something you have, just like you have fingers, toes and a smile. When I talk of energy, I don't mean in the way of reducing people TO their energy, but recognizing that it's part of them.
My ex had rage issues. (As do many alcoholics and addicts, of which he was both) In the midst of rage, his "energy" was different than it would be later, when he calmed down. Rage energy and peaceful energy aren't remotely the same. You know?
Often times with humans, the way we think affects our energy, which then affects our behaviour, which then affects how we think. It becomes a cycle that can spiral us up or spiral us down.
Rob... I'm laughing now. Thank you.
Ah, again the false dichotomy plays itself out, ham-stringing the human psyche
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
Tom... I think you know the concepts of which I'm speaking. I read your comment in the "lights turned out" post at designator's. The ones where you said UKs departure is wearing heavily on you because you were not as diplomatic as you could have been. If I recall right (without looking it up again) I think you might have said you didn't intend to hurt. (or maybe that was someone else?)
One doesn't have to be a follower of any particular theology to comprehend that words carry an energy. They can lift or add weight, they can hurt or heal. We get to choose them.
FWIW, I don't think the word dichotomy is even remotely applicable. When it comes to beliefs, there are far more than even the largest mind can comprehend, and then more. ;)
One doesn't have to be a follower of any particular theology to comprehend that words carry an energy. They can lift or add weight, they can hurt or heal. We get to choose them.
FWIW, I don't think the word dichotomy is even remotely applicable. When it comes to beliefs, there are far more than even the largest mind can comprehend, and then more. ;)
First you people bitch because I'm posting nudity. Now you bitch over quantity and quality. I throw my shoes at you, again.
Now that you've thrown your shoes anyway, can you show us the bottom of your foot?
I've been following this conversation and most of my internal comments align with those made here by Stellaa and Verbal. As yet no one has explained to my satisfaction how negative events are explained by people's negative energy in the same way that positive events are attributed/explained by people's positive energy. The rapes and murders in Darfur are not happening because women there are bringing rape down on themselves - they are happening b/c the government there is sponsoring a genocide on people too hopelessly impoverished and cut off from the world to be able to do anything about it.
Recently I read on someone's blog - was it UK? - that she manifest a free latte that included an unusually zippy elevator ride. This seems like wishful thinking to me, the attribution of causality where only coincidence is present. If she manifest that free latte ten days in a row, now we can start talking about energy as causality.
Recently I read on someone's blog - was it UK? - that she manifest a free latte that included an unusually zippy elevator ride. This seems like wishful thinking to me, the attribution of causality where only coincidence is present. If she manifest that free latte ten days in a row, now we can start talking about energy as causality.
Sandra, that is the crux.
Nakie is good for you, I suggest getting naked whenever you can!
Yes, even in cold shitty weather . . . . .it can lead to . . um . .either lots of adult fun . . or Pups! (if your not careful, LOL)
Don't forget the raincoat!
Yes, even in cold shitty weather . . . . .it can lead to . . um . .either lots of adult fun . . or Pups! (if your not careful, LOL)
Don't forget the raincoat!
Baglady and BBE:
Hey, hey, hey!
The only official BITCH here, is ME!
Kidding, Carry on! :D
Hey, hey, hey!
The only official BITCH here, is ME!
Kidding, Carry on! :D
RantingBoomer -- The false dichotomy I was alluding to is that this argument is rational vs irrational, or viewed from the other end of the scale, religious vs religious -- however you choose to define religion. The are more than two doors of perception, and not everything in our live fits neatly into the confines of our limited perceptions.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
And while I have no desire to hurt anyone's feelings, those who trivialize such weighty matters by claiming to control elevators or parking spaces with their will/wish/desire/law of attraction open themselves up to ridicule. Like I said, if anyone has such powers, they ought to consider using them to promote world peace rather than cadging a parking spot.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
And while I have no desire to hurt anyone's feelings, those who trivialize such weighty matters by claiming to control elevators or parking spaces with their will/wish/desire/law of attraction open themselves up to ridicule. Like I said, if anyone has such powers, they ought to consider using them to promote world peace rather than cadging a parking spot.
I truly believe in my parking fairy. I have the best luck with finding that spot that people think they can find if they drive around the lot just one more time. But really, it seems this article is about perspective. feeling ok with what's dealt to you. Then things can improve from there. and that works for me. Even when the worst of things have happened, good has come from it. I feel lucky therefore I am. Does that make sense?
Every now and then I read a post, and the comments, and just don't really understand what's going on. So I leave it and return. One thing I noticed is that there is a lot of passion in the comments. People have strong opinions on belief issues. I happen to be a very strong spiritual believer, and I often invoke the "Parking God", and sometimes with good results. I am also one who wants the data - the "proof" if you will. I believe in aliens but I am puzzled as to why they are usually seen by people in the South drinking Jack Daniels on the side of a muddy river - at sundown! I believe that attitude and will are powerful healing forces, but not conquerors of all. After all, life itself is a terminal process. I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments and perspectives. I expect we'll see more in future posts. I am reminded of an old African proverb that I use frequently: "When you pray, move your feet."
Rated (as if it needed it now)
Rated (as if it needed it now)
The Parking Fairy exists and likes it when she is invoked.
That doesn't trivialize the world's problems. You can deal with
the heavy stuff yet still appreciate the lighter side.
That doesn't trivialize the world's problems. You can deal with
the heavy stuff yet still appreciate the lighter side.
I am gladdened to see this didn't devolve into a gal/guy thing. Sandra Miller expressed my feelings on the subject exactly:
"Recently I read on someone's blog - was it UK? - that she manifest a free latte that included an unusually zippy elevator ride. This seems like wishful thinking to me, the attribution of causality where only coincidence is present. If she manifest that free latte ten days in a row, now we can start talking about energy as causality."
While it's true that much advancement in knowledge begins with a hunch, and while we can't explain the source of those hunches, it's a safe bet that informed hunches are usually better than strictly, wild-ass guesses of ignoramuses -- present company excepted, of course.
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe?" Maybe, but sometimes blind faith is just blind. Reason often supplies corrective lenses.
"Recently I read on someone's blog - was it UK? - that she manifest a free latte that included an unusually zippy elevator ride. This seems like wishful thinking to me, the attribution of causality where only coincidence is present. If she manifest that free latte ten days in a row, now we can start talking about energy as causality."
While it's true that much advancement in knowledge begins with a hunch, and while we can't explain the source of those hunches, it's a safe bet that informed hunches are usually better than strictly, wild-ass guesses of ignoramuses -- present company excepted, of course.
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe?" Maybe, but sometimes blind faith is just blind. Reason often supplies corrective lenses.
On the parking fairy: What did the parking fairy do before we had cars? Is she a new fairy or was she re-assigned.
Stellaa, she used to have a gig as a Hitching Post Fairy, but she was laid off by the Big 3.
Maybe Verbal is right but I'm not sure she existed before
we had cars. Cars, then parking lots, therefore a need and
Voila! The collective unconscious creates a Parking Fairy!
Parking Fairy, Parking Fairy, smile upon me!
we had cars. Cars, then parking lots, therefore a need and
Voila! The collective unconscious creates a Parking Fairy!
Parking Fairy, Parking Fairy, smile upon me!
Thanks for letting me join in late. I'm with Stellaa on this. IMO it is easier to believe this when you are young and healthy and live in a country where food is clean and water is accessible and things are going well. Some of the most positive, noble intelligent people I have ever met were born in areas hit by a tsunmami or drought or torn by a wars started by others. Some were kidnapped and raped. Some have AIDs without even knowing they were given it, good mothers, young girls.
I have traveled in these parts, and even lived in slums of the Philippines and other places where the most positive, faith-based (often Catholic or Fundamental Christian) people were doing their best despite it all. They walk the walk of dignity. They are positive.
It is unfair to those who have suffered to make the same idealistic case; sometimes the case just can't be made except in wishful thinking, despite the words of Reader's Digest, whose huge green-lawns and comfortable,, art-filled offices and well-paid execs exist near my home like a peaceful campus.
Sure, we do better when we're positive. And I am. But I couldn't wish a way the cartful of sorrows throughout my life. And I don't get parking in NY, despite wishing/visualising/hoping like crazy (I know, I'm doing it wrong.)
These debates are interesting, and I so appreciate the civility of this site vs 90% of the others out there, but we should agree to respectfully disagree and understand that we probably can't change each others' minds.
One obvious note: It would be cruel to discuss this philosophy with someone who has just been diagnosed with a terminal illness, or someone who lost a relative in a war or genocide. Or the family of a soldier who died in Iraq, or lost a son in 9/11... or......?
I have traveled in these parts, and even lived in slums of the Philippines and other places where the most positive, faith-based (often Catholic or Fundamental Christian) people were doing their best despite it all. They walk the walk of dignity. They are positive.
It is unfair to those who have suffered to make the same idealistic case; sometimes the case just can't be made except in wishful thinking, despite the words of Reader's Digest, whose huge green-lawns and comfortable,, art-filled offices and well-paid execs exist near my home like a peaceful campus.
Sure, we do better when we're positive. And I am. But I couldn't wish a way the cartful of sorrows throughout my life. And I don't get parking in NY, despite wishing/visualising/hoping like crazy (I know, I'm doing it wrong.)
These debates are interesting, and I so appreciate the civility of this site vs 90% of the others out there, but we should agree to respectfully disagree and understand that we probably can't change each others' minds.
One obvious note: It would be cruel to discuss this philosophy with someone who has just been diagnosed with a terminal illness, or someone who lost a relative in a war or genocide. Or the family of a soldier who died in Iraq, or lost a son in 9/11... or......?
Must be a full moon!
My purse was stolen out of my shopping cart the weekend before last weekend. In it I had a bunch of crystals that look like they went through a kids' rock tumbler (citron for abundance!) and a paper on which someone wrote the number 8--again for abundance. Hope the thief felt pretty rich getting a $20 Peet's card, whatever was left on a Starbuck's card, $5 cash, two movie passes, my car keys, driver's licence, ATM card and a credit card.
I'm very lucky I was able to quickly cancel the cards and that the person with my keys didn't come steal my car!
(Do you think RD would like my story?)
Love the photos.
My purse was stolen out of my shopping cart the weekend before last weekend. In it I had a bunch of crystals that look like they went through a kids' rock tumbler (citron for abundance!) and a paper on which someone wrote the number 8--again for abundance. Hope the thief felt pretty rich getting a $20 Peet's card, whatever was left on a Starbuck's card, $5 cash, two movie passes, my car keys, driver's licence, ATM card and a credit card.
I'm very lucky I was able to quickly cancel the cards and that the person with my keys didn't come steal my car!
(Do you think RD would like my story?)
Love the photos.
I tend to agree with the cynics on this one and felt the need to break into a song.
Blog Whoring My Post: The Secret for Cynics
Blog Whoring My Post: The Secret for Cynics
I wrestled my brother's laptop away from him so I could distract myself by stopping by OS - and stumbled on this entry by BBE. Wow, what a surprise - I didn't think this subject was going to be carried forward this way. I notice we have the same things being said by the same people as have been said for several days now, no surprise there. But I notice some other things, too.
"Recently I read on someone's blog - was it UK? - that she manifest a free latte that included an unusually zippy elevator ride. This seems like wishful thinking to me, the attribution of causality where only coincidence is present. If she manifest that free latte ten days in a row, now we can start talking about energy as causality."
Thanks for airily dismissing something that's quite meaningful to me, Sandra. I hope sometime I can return the favor. In the meantime, how about if I just say to you, smiling in a very friendly, civil discourse kind of way, of course, "Bite me."
No matter how many times I or lalucas or anyone else tells all of you that the "child wishing harm on themselves" or "women wanting to be raped in Darfur" or any other of the distortions you insist on latching onto over and over and over and over again, aren't what we're talking about, you just keep returning to those tired, twisted-up versions of our words, again and again and again.
You've taken what I said and given it a meaning other than the meaning that was intended, and no matter how many times you're told "That's not it," you keep insisting it is. Is that what you mean when you talk about "intellectual plumbing"?
And like I said, no matter how many times you're told you're not getting it, you just go back to same-old, same-old, and are utterly convinced that you're proving your point.
I also keep saying you can't understand these principles until you learn to think differently about the nature of reality itself, and I keep saying it's not something that can be understood on an intellectual level, yet you keep trying to intellectualize it, and you keep trying to talk authoritatively about something about which you know nothing. You're jumping all over my words, so eager to disprove and refute me, and you don't have the slightest clue!
How do I know this? Okay, here's one example: I provided links to some videos on Youtube in which the basic principles I'm talking about are laid out VERY CLEARLY, yet when Rob (who I consider to be a very smart guy) watched the first of the three, he said he stopped watching because he didn't understand what the guy was talking about.
I REST MY CASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally, you echoed back to me what I'd been trying to say all along.
Are you beginning to get a glimmering of what I'm trying to get you to understand?
Excuse me for saying this, but a lot of you are talking out your asses, because you don't know the first thing about the subject, but you're trying to ACT as though you do.
There's more to all this than can be understood in comments on a blog entry, or even in lengthy entries on a blog. And just how many, many times have I said THAT in the past couple of weeks??? Gah!!! *Insert colorful cussing*... If I could virtually take a hat off my head and throw it down and stomp on it, I would, out of pure frustration!
All of the sturm und drang... it's just getting so painful for me to watch.
You don't even realize that you don't get it.
Want proof that you don't get it? Here's a quick little challenge for you. Do what Rob did. Go watch this video. It's the one Rob watched and didn't understand. If you report back that you watched it and understood every word he said, as I do, clear as glass, kindergarten-level-easy-peasy, then we can talk.
Until then, stop pretending and posturing, please. You're making yourselves look so very silly.
"Recently I read on someone's blog - was it UK? - that she manifest a free latte that included an unusually zippy elevator ride. This seems like wishful thinking to me, the attribution of causality where only coincidence is present. If she manifest that free latte ten days in a row, now we can start talking about energy as causality."
Thanks for airily dismissing something that's quite meaningful to me, Sandra. I hope sometime I can return the favor. In the meantime, how about if I just say to you, smiling in a very friendly, civil discourse kind of way, of course, "Bite me."
No matter how many times I or lalucas or anyone else tells all of you that the "child wishing harm on themselves" or "women wanting to be raped in Darfur" or any other of the distortions you insist on latching onto over and over and over and over again, aren't what we're talking about, you just keep returning to those tired, twisted-up versions of our words, again and again and again.
You've taken what I said and given it a meaning other than the meaning that was intended, and no matter how many times you're told "That's not it," you keep insisting it is. Is that what you mean when you talk about "intellectual plumbing"?
And like I said, no matter how many times you're told you're not getting it, you just go back to same-old, same-old, and are utterly convinced that you're proving your point.
I also keep saying you can't understand these principles until you learn to think differently about the nature of reality itself, and I keep saying it's not something that can be understood on an intellectual level, yet you keep trying to intellectualize it, and you keep trying to talk authoritatively about something about which you know nothing. You're jumping all over my words, so eager to disprove and refute me, and you don't have the slightest clue!
How do I know this? Okay, here's one example: I provided links to some videos on Youtube in which the basic principles I'm talking about are laid out VERY CLEARLY, yet when Rob (who I consider to be a very smart guy) watched the first of the three, he said he stopped watching because he didn't understand what the guy was talking about.
I REST MY CASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally, you echoed back to me what I'd been trying to say all along.
Are you beginning to get a glimmering of what I'm trying to get you to understand?
Excuse me for saying this, but a lot of you are talking out your asses, because you don't know the first thing about the subject, but you're trying to ACT as though you do.
There's more to all this than can be understood in comments on a blog entry, or even in lengthy entries on a blog. And just how many, many times have I said THAT in the past couple of weeks??? Gah!!! *Insert colorful cussing*... If I could virtually take a hat off my head and throw it down and stomp on it, I would, out of pure frustration!
All of the sturm und drang... it's just getting so painful for me to watch.
You don't even realize that you don't get it.
Want proof that you don't get it? Here's a quick little challenge for you. Do what Rob did. Go watch this video. It's the one Rob watched and didn't understand. If you report back that you watched it and understood every word he said, as I do, clear as glass, kindergarten-level-easy-peasy, then we can talk.
Until then, stop pretending and posturing, please. You're making yourselves look so very silly.
Wow, this is rugged.
To understand the physicality of the universe isn't easy. Whether we live in a determined or indeterminate universe would be good to know, but nobody does, really. Human will can be very powerful, and many people do make their own luck, through attention and perseverance if nothing else.
Martial artists like to talk about ki, a life force which emanates from our center. Fighters with excellent ki can deal a mortal blow, or effortlessly toss fellows on the floor. His power comes from his center, and he hews to a spiritual path to find his ki and bring it to bear as a fighter.
If you have ever wrestled or boxed, or danced, or done any such activity, then you know that an advanced physical regimen for an elite athlete may include hundreds of repetitions of all forms of situps and additional exercises designed to strengthen all the muscles of midsection. People who are very strong in the midsection are, axiomatically, conditioned to fight (and to do a lot of other things, too, I understand).
If I think about my ki, then I will do all the things that strengthen my midsection, because finding ki is hard work. My "ki-ei", my spirit shriek, will startle my opponent, but only the attacks mounted from my center will be effective.
I'll keep doing the situps, then.
To understand the physicality of the universe isn't easy. Whether we live in a determined or indeterminate universe would be good to know, but nobody does, really. Human will can be very powerful, and many people do make their own luck, through attention and perseverance if nothing else.
Martial artists like to talk about ki, a life force which emanates from our center. Fighters with excellent ki can deal a mortal blow, or effortlessly toss fellows on the floor. His power comes from his center, and he hews to a spiritual path to find his ki and bring it to bear as a fighter.
If you have ever wrestled or boxed, or danced, or done any such activity, then you know that an advanced physical regimen for an elite athlete may include hundreds of repetitions of all forms of situps and additional exercises designed to strengthen all the muscles of midsection. People who are very strong in the midsection are, axiomatically, conditioned to fight (and to do a lot of other things, too, I understand).
If I think about my ki, then I will do all the things that strengthen my midsection, because finding ki is hard work. My "ki-ei", my spirit shriek, will startle my opponent, but only the attacks mounted from my center will be effective.
I'll keep doing the situps, then.
UK - you are not the only one with feelings on OS. I did not 'airily dismiss' anything. I was engaged in serious thought, and you are projecting a tone onto my words that was not intended, and is not there. In the future you would do well to question your 'take' on what you are before making such an assertion. Maybe you could even lead with a question, e.g. "I get emotional about this topic. You are new to the conversation and I don't yet know how to 'read' your comments. You seem dismissive to me. If not, then my error."
Bite you? What gives you the right to talk to people like this?
Sandra: If I didn't phrase what I said to your satisfaction, well, we don't always, do we? You say your words were based on serious thought, I thought they were airy dismissal.
What gives you the right to ask me what gives me the right?
I'm not one of those nicey-nice om-chanting New Age guru-wannabes. Sometimes if I'm in the mood, I actually snap at people. And if you say something as silly as "If she manifest that free latte ten days in a row, now we can start talking about energy as causality," then I figure I'm free to say something as outrageous as "Bite me".
What gives you the right to ask me what gives me the right?
I'm not one of those nicey-nice om-chanting New Age guru-wannabes. Sometimes if I'm in the mood, I actually snap at people. And if you say something as silly as "If she manifest that free latte ten days in a row, now we can start talking about energy as causality," then I figure I'm free to say something as outrageous as "Bite me".
OK, well, I went and watched this "bashar" video and I understand every word used and, more importantly, how every word is used together which I believe is called syntax.
IMHO, I would call this semantic gobbledegook and a complete waste a time. Someone who is intentionally trying to mis-lead and obfuscate.
Good luck with that. My 2.5 cents
IMHO, I would call this semantic gobbledegook and a complete waste a time. Someone who is intentionally trying to mis-lead and obfuscate.
Good luck with that. My 2.5 cents
So what you're saying, Rance, (Rants?) is that you didn't understand what he's talking about. That's okay, it's no point of shame to admit that it's all new concepts. They ARE all new concepts. That's what I keep saying.
UK -There is a difference between discussing someone's opinion, and attacking them personally.
BBE - thanks for the conversation.
BBE - thanks for the conversation.
Sandra, saying "Bite me" isn't a personal attack. It's an invitation. In this case, it was a response to hyperbole. Ten days in a row, come on, really? Just because it's a concept you don't agree with doesn't mean you get to demand some over-the-top "proof" of what I'm saying. I get to say it, and I don't have to prove a damn thing. Ten days, Christ on a crutch.
My brother wants his laptop back so I'm back off OS for now. As much as I'd like to continue this scintillating conversation, I can't, more's the pity.
Oh no, I did exactly what you asked me to do, go listen to the video and understand.
I understood exactly what he's talking about, which is nothing. His technique is to make it sound like something.
For you to tell me that I don't understand because I disagree is not an honest argument, it's you broaching no disagreement. Snake eats it's tail.
And thank you for mocking my name in our first encounter.
I understood exactly what he's talking about, which is nothing. His technique is to make it sound like something.
For you to tell me that I don't understand because I disagree is not an honest argument, it's you broaching no disagreement. Snake eats it's tail.
And thank you for mocking my name in our first encounter.
flouncing off again.....
No need for you to flounce, Sandra. Just walk.
Yeah, not quite gone yet, caught ya.
Yeah, not quite gone yet, caught ya.
Rance: It is my opinion that if it sounded like "nothing" to you, it's because you didn't understand it. Snake eats its tail yet again.
You have to admit, "rance" sounds just like "rants". I'm not making fun, I'm just saying.
Boy, Sandra, you don't like people standing up to you, do you? Wowser. You get naaaaasssssty. Are you a mean girl in disguise???
You have to admit, "rance" sounds just like "rants". I'm not making fun, I'm just saying.
Boy, Sandra, you don't like people standing up to you, do you? Wowser. You get naaaaasssssty. Are you a mean girl in disguise???
Umbrella, you blew your cover. Blew it. If you are this evolved higher life form, why do you have to get so friggin nasty. This is just bull crap and the pity fest you want from all of us so you can create this flouncing melodrama cause you got sucked in by some creep called Bashar. I went to the site, and this is a psycho. If that is what makes you happy, go for it, but don't you dare insult the rest of us.
Cyber melodrama. Particularly the computer from your brother bull crap. ( I am an 18 year old blond typing this in my undies). Deal with it. If you are so evolved, put up your name and your real picture.
Cyber melodrama. Particularly the computer from your brother bull crap. ( I am an 18 year old blond typing this in my undies). Deal with it. If you are so evolved, put up your name and your real picture.
"Bashar is a male member of a 5th dimensional civilization"
I would like to propose a nice cup of tea for everyone. Just tea. It's so...nice.
Umbrella - take a deep breath. If all the stuff you say is going on in your life is really going on in your life, then take a deep breath. Not one person - not me, not anyone else here, is attacking you. Some people disagree with your beliefs. Most people on OS, from my observation, are capable of still liking a person (or their avatar representation) even on evidence that agreement on values, beliefs and issues is not 100%. Try to follow suit - try to accept that people can hold views that conflict with you own, but wish you no ill will, do not desire to airily dismiss you, and certainly have no need to invite you to bite them.
I am unaware of what you are 'standing up to' regarding anything I said. I'm a statistician - I require some repetitive evidence before I can call something 'not random'. It is not a personal slight against you. But now that we're on the subject - yes, I'd require you to repeat the feat of manifesting a free drink, or a parking space, or anything else that you are attributing to positive energy, before I, personally, could accept that you are actually doing so. It's not a challenge to you. It's just a statement. There is no emotion on my part, and certainly no dismissal. I do, however, dislike being invited to 'bite' someone simply because I do not agree with them. Apparently you are going through difficult times. I wish you well, and hope that your beliefs sustain you and give you the comfort and strength that you need to work through whatever it is that needs working through to make you the unfailing civil person I have come to expect on OS.
I am unaware of what you are 'standing up to' regarding anything I said. I'm a statistician - I require some repetitive evidence before I can call something 'not random'. It is not a personal slight against you. But now that we're on the subject - yes, I'd require you to repeat the feat of manifesting a free drink, or a parking space, or anything else that you are attributing to positive energy, before I, personally, could accept that you are actually doing so. It's not a challenge to you. It's just a statement. There is no emotion on my part, and certainly no dismissal. I do, however, dislike being invited to 'bite' someone simply because I do not agree with them. Apparently you are going through difficult times. I wish you well, and hope that your beliefs sustain you and give you the comfort and strength that you need to work through whatever it is that needs working through to make you the unfailing civil person I have come to expect on OS.
My oh my. Well, I'll say this: I have a nagging suspicion that at least a few sets of previously wringing hands may have stopped wringing.
Watch Bashar in his glory...http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=63585
Is Bashar even half as loopy as the 10,000-year-0ld ascended Lemurian Master in "What the #%$*% Do We Know?"
http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=36590
http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=36590
Cyber melodrama, we were punked.
Optimists are luckier than pessimists. I'm sure that is true. The problem comes with knowing why it is true. Before we assume people make their own luck, hence those who expect better receive better, we should consider things the other way round. Maybe people who have experienced a shitload of bad luck are statistically more likely to be pessimists, while those who have had things go their way are statistically more likely to be optimists. On this model neither group would be social or phenomenological constructivists; rather both groups would be equally empiricist, though working with different sets of data.
It seems to me a chicken and egg problem, one complicated by the fact that both sides, the constructivist chicken and the empiricist egg are both in play simultaneously, interacting, unevenly and undecidably with one another. Destinies are too complicated for the straightforward explanation either side alone would provide.
Whether this account is itself empiricist or constructivist, for example, I have no fucking idea.
It seems to me a chicken and egg problem, one complicated by the fact that both sides, the constructivist chicken and the empiricist egg are both in play simultaneously, interacting, unevenly and undecidably with one another. Destinies are too complicated for the straightforward explanation either side alone would provide.
Whether this account is itself empiricist or constructivist, for example, I have no fucking idea.
This thread has gotten really LONG. lol.
Tom... RE: RantingBoomer -- The false dichotomy I was alluding to is that this argument is rational vs irrational, or viewed from the other end of the scale, religious vs religious -- however you choose to define religion. The are more than two doors of perception, and not everything in our live fits neatly into the confines of our limited perceptions.
Thanks for explaining that. More than two doors of perception... I SO completely agree. There's so many doors of perceptions we couldn't possibly open them all in a lifetime. That's why I keep saying there's far more questions than answers...
Grif - you crack me up. lol. I've not been here long, but I'm starting to watch for your quips already.
libertarious... for a grey box dude (no pic) you make a lot of sense. If I have a belief at all, it's like I said to Tom... there are far more questions than answers.
I liked what Lea said about disagreeing respectfully. Then again, I usually like what Lea has to say. :)
Tom... RE: RantingBoomer -- The false dichotomy I was alluding to is that this argument is rational vs irrational, or viewed from the other end of the scale, religious vs religious -- however you choose to define religion. The are more than two doors of perception, and not everything in our live fits neatly into the confines of our limited perceptions.
Thanks for explaining that. More than two doors of perception... I SO completely agree. There's so many doors of perceptions we couldn't possibly open them all in a lifetime. That's why I keep saying there's far more questions than answers...
Grif - you crack me up. lol. I've not been here long, but I'm starting to watch for your quips already.
libertarious... for a grey box dude (no pic) you make a lot of sense. If I have a belief at all, it's like I said to Tom... there are far more questions than answers.
I liked what Lea said about disagreeing respectfully. Then again, I usually like what Lea has to say. :)
Bashar is a male member...
My inner twelve-year-old finds this pretty funny as a biographical statement.
My inner twelve-year-old finds this pretty funny as a biographical statement.
UK, respectfully:
"I'm not one of those nicey-nice om-chanting New Age guru-wannabes."
Ohm chanting is anything but "new-age". It's OLD age/old school spiritualism and I practice meditation each day. It's been helpful to me in my inner turmoil, (much like what you're enduring). Perhaps I would suggest your practice it. Some of us are practitioners of this particular lifestyle, much like the one you are defending. What good is it to throw stones and call people "wannabes".
Much like you aired your displeasure with my simple remark on "Self-Fulfilling Prophecies", I have to voice mine with that statement.
I wish you ALL the best, as well as your entire family.
Peace,
Greg
"I'm not one of those nicey-nice om-chanting New Age guru-wannabes."
Ohm chanting is anything but "new-age". It's OLD age/old school spiritualism and I practice meditation each day. It's been helpful to me in my inner turmoil, (much like what you're enduring). Perhaps I would suggest your practice it. Some of us are practitioners of this particular lifestyle, much like the one you are defending. What good is it to throw stones and call people "wannabes".
Much like you aired your displeasure with my simple remark on "Self-Fulfilling Prophecies", I have to voice mine with that statement.
I wish you ALL the best, as well as your entire family.
Peace,
Greg
wow
Well, VR, I hate to be labled a simpleton, but you know from past posts that I have always professed a belief in a One God/Creator. Not like the Creationists exactly, but I do believe there is divine order to all.
OS is full of atheists and/or humanists who have not seen enough proof of God, or any proof, so I have not attempted to post about these concepts. I give it to UK who is much more brave than I am with regard to OS. I feel that there are other ways to be useful here, as well as enjoy myself (which of course, are usually fairly well intertwined.)
With that said, it goes without saying that you can still manifest things or situations without a belief in God. The reason it is possible, however, requires some understanding of the physics of the situation. All is possible with physics as this is a physical reality. Laws of order govern all. The energy understood to exist between cells is attributed to a Creative Force, that I choose to think of as the One God. If not, you can think of it as pure energy.
So, there is scientific evidence to support the concept. As soon as I get out my Christmas packages to family in WA, I will try to write about it SOLELY from a scientific perspective. Wish me well -- it is a hard task....I'll do it just for you, VR, as I know you are full of questions on the subject and are very rational when logical evidence is supplied.
By the way, you will always be in my friends' box, too -- we Illinois girls have to stick together! (Sandra, you too.)
OS is full of atheists and/or humanists who have not seen enough proof of God, or any proof, so I have not attempted to post about these concepts. I give it to UK who is much more brave than I am with regard to OS. I feel that there are other ways to be useful here, as well as enjoy myself (which of course, are usually fairly well intertwined.)
With that said, it goes without saying that you can still manifest things or situations without a belief in God. The reason it is possible, however, requires some understanding of the physics of the situation. All is possible with physics as this is a physical reality. Laws of order govern all. The energy understood to exist between cells is attributed to a Creative Force, that I choose to think of as the One God. If not, you can think of it as pure energy.
So, there is scientific evidence to support the concept. As soon as I get out my Christmas packages to family in WA, I will try to write about it SOLELY from a scientific perspective. Wish me well -- it is a hard task....I'll do it just for you, VR, as I know you are full of questions on the subject and are very rational when logical evidence is supplied.
By the way, you will always be in my friends' box, too -- we Illinois girls have to stick together! (Sandra, you too.)
wow. really, wow.
I am the first to admit, "I DON'T get it." I don't understand the laws of attraction, what Bashar is trying to say, or why I should care about any individual's coup of parking spots or lattes. That may put me in the "airily dismissive" camp that Sandra seems to be occupying or the skeptical, rational dismissive camp of stellaa & rob. So be it.
Here's the question that I haven't seen addressed, though. For those of us who "don't get it" - is the argument that we aren't willing to be open it, are somehow less enlightened, OR that we have a competing, equally valid point of view?
To me, part of what is driving the skepticism and ugliness here is that it seems that the argument is being pushed that if you only understood it better, you would believe.
That, to me, is reminiscent of cult-like and religious fanatical tendencies.
An example from my Catholic indoctrination...as much as I try to understand the concept of the Trinity (three beings in One) or trans-substantiation, I just CAN'T. I fully understand the IDEAS behind each, but I don't believe it. I can't get my head around it to make it be true (FOR ME), as much as I tried for many years.
To me, this argument is essentially the same. And, I would HOPE that no one would tell me "bite me" because I said that these notions seem unrealistic and perhaps, not 100% true.
I am the first to admit, "I DON'T get it." I don't understand the laws of attraction, what Bashar is trying to say, or why I should care about any individual's coup of parking spots or lattes. That may put me in the "airily dismissive" camp that Sandra seems to be occupying or the skeptical, rational dismissive camp of stellaa & rob. So be it.
Here's the question that I haven't seen addressed, though. For those of us who "don't get it" - is the argument that we aren't willing to be open it, are somehow less enlightened, OR that we have a competing, equally valid point of view?
To me, part of what is driving the skepticism and ugliness here is that it seems that the argument is being pushed that if you only understood it better, you would believe.
That, to me, is reminiscent of cult-like and religious fanatical tendencies.
An example from my Catholic indoctrination...as much as I try to understand the concept of the Trinity (three beings in One) or trans-substantiation, I just CAN'T. I fully understand the IDEAS behind each, but I don't believe it. I can't get my head around it to make it be true (FOR ME), as much as I tried for many years.
To me, this argument is essentially the same. And, I would HOPE that no one would tell me "bite me" because I said that these notions seem unrealistic and perhaps, not 100% true.
OMG!!!!
I had only read down to VR's comment when I posted mine this morning. I did not see Sandra's comments or UK's responses. This conversation needs to be carried on somewhere else. I cannot do it -- I have had a relapse with my stupid sickness -- yes, you can make fun but this is a nasty bug and I am very stressed just now...
Sandra, VR, and others: You have been present and active during our many conversations with regard to atheism vs. theism. I ask you to go back to them to think about what was said there. You profess not to believe in God, you know that I do. I find proof of God in this philosophy. I will try to explain it but I am at a loss as to where to begin. What I may do is write a bunch of posts with closed threads, then after I get all the ideas out, open the threads. I will send invites to those that I KNOW are interested. I hope I can get to this next week.
Lisa, lpsrocks -- I do not think less of anyone for what they believe -- we all have our thoughts about the world, our purpose, or why we are here at all. Being of a scientific mind (yes, analytical is VERY much a part of my persona), I like what I have learned as I think it explains much.
For those that are satisfied with what you know, that is fine, too, of course. But I have to say after 12 years of study, I have no idea where to begin that would make sense to those of you that I have come to know here on OS. What little piece of information would open/intrigue your minds and hearts enough to look for/want more? I am still incubating this thought and yes, praying for direction.
Those of you that know me on OS know that I am not "religious". I am an ex-Catholic with a humanist's view of life in general. I do believe in the One God, however, which is more than slightly different from my fellow ex-Catholics here on OS (for the most part).
When I left the Church, I left the dogma, not the concept of God. Others of you that I know from our discussions seem to have walked away not only from the Church, but from a belief in God in entirety, or very close to that. Yet, I know well why you have chosen to walk away -- there are many ex-Catholics in the world and most of us are that way for good reason.
Tom, your story about the 50th wedding anniversary/car repair shows that you understand our thought process but apparently, it is difficult to imagine how much you "created" within that scenario and how much was "luck". The tool was given to the mechanic years before you arrived -- some order in the universe could be attributed to the "odd" gift. Your needs and being there pushing through the situation triggered the memory of the tool in the mechanic. If you had not been actively engaged in getting the job done, he may never have thought of it. In a way, not as "mystical" as the latte, but all the same a small miracle, you manifested the ability to make it to your parents 50th anniversary. You wanted it badly enough to shape what happened around you. Instead of giving up, going fullon negative, you persisted in the pursuit of a solution. That is the magic of allowing for something to happen -- you didn't give up, and it came together. You know this to be true, don't you? :)
I still have not read all the comments, but it looks like it gets ugly here. I hope it is resolved in the end. WE ARE NOT READY with enough basic material to look over and digest to have these conversations just now. We will, please be patient. Stellaa, I will do my best to provide something that even a skeptic can look at and digest from a scientific perspective.
Rob, I don't know where you are, but did you really NOT understand that video? I think maybe because there has been no baseline set for how the philosophy views humans in this reality. We are soul in a body. That part must be accepted to move forward. If there is no belief in a spiritual/soul portion of our makeup, there can be no understanding of the rest.
The best thing for EVERYONE to do that wants to participate is to read Jane Robert's "Seth Speaks". Read it in entirety with an open mind. Much of what we are saying is explained fully there. Good luck all -- let's not fight over God and spiritual concepts?!
I had only read down to VR's comment when I posted mine this morning. I did not see Sandra's comments or UK's responses. This conversation needs to be carried on somewhere else. I cannot do it -- I have had a relapse with my stupid sickness -- yes, you can make fun but this is a nasty bug and I am very stressed just now...
Sandra, VR, and others: You have been present and active during our many conversations with regard to atheism vs. theism. I ask you to go back to them to think about what was said there. You profess not to believe in God, you know that I do. I find proof of God in this philosophy. I will try to explain it but I am at a loss as to where to begin. What I may do is write a bunch of posts with closed threads, then after I get all the ideas out, open the threads. I will send invites to those that I KNOW are interested. I hope I can get to this next week.
Lisa, lpsrocks -- I do not think less of anyone for what they believe -- we all have our thoughts about the world, our purpose, or why we are here at all. Being of a scientific mind (yes, analytical is VERY much a part of my persona), I like what I have learned as I think it explains much.
For those that are satisfied with what you know, that is fine, too, of course. But I have to say after 12 years of study, I have no idea where to begin that would make sense to those of you that I have come to know here on OS. What little piece of information would open/intrigue your minds and hearts enough to look for/want more? I am still incubating this thought and yes, praying for direction.
Those of you that know me on OS know that I am not "religious". I am an ex-Catholic with a humanist's view of life in general. I do believe in the One God, however, which is more than slightly different from my fellow ex-Catholics here on OS (for the most part).
When I left the Church, I left the dogma, not the concept of God. Others of you that I know from our discussions seem to have walked away not only from the Church, but from a belief in God in entirety, or very close to that. Yet, I know well why you have chosen to walk away -- there are many ex-Catholics in the world and most of us are that way for good reason.
Tom, your story about the 50th wedding anniversary/car repair shows that you understand our thought process but apparently, it is difficult to imagine how much you "created" within that scenario and how much was "luck". The tool was given to the mechanic years before you arrived -- some order in the universe could be attributed to the "odd" gift. Your needs and being there pushing through the situation triggered the memory of the tool in the mechanic. If you had not been actively engaged in getting the job done, he may never have thought of it. In a way, not as "mystical" as the latte, but all the same a small miracle, you manifested the ability to make it to your parents 50th anniversary. You wanted it badly enough to shape what happened around you. Instead of giving up, going fullon negative, you persisted in the pursuit of a solution. That is the magic of allowing for something to happen -- you didn't give up, and it came together. You know this to be true, don't you? :)
I still have not read all the comments, but it looks like it gets ugly here. I hope it is resolved in the end. WE ARE NOT READY with enough basic material to look over and digest to have these conversations just now. We will, please be patient. Stellaa, I will do my best to provide something that even a skeptic can look at and digest from a scientific perspective.
Rob, I don't know where you are, but did you really NOT understand that video? I think maybe because there has been no baseline set for how the philosophy views humans in this reality. We are soul in a body. That part must be accepted to move forward. If there is no belief in a spiritual/soul portion of our makeup, there can be no understanding of the rest.
The best thing for EVERYONE to do that wants to participate is to read Jane Robert's "Seth Speaks". Read it in entirety with an open mind. Much of what we are saying is explained fully there. Good luck all -- let's not fight over God and spiritual concepts?!
PS Stellaa, Bashar is channeling an entity, the same as does Jane Roberts in Seth Speaks. I know a channel right here where I live. These are not the dime a dozen channels that populate the neon districts of big cities, and most of California. Like so much, the faux ones have given real channels a bad name in the world of spirituality.
If you will take the time -- please do! -- to read Seth Speaks and you find it totally ridiculous, then there will be no point in further discussion as it will do nothing but frustrate you. If it makes one iota of sense, then the concepts could be discussed in detail. It really is kindof black and white that way. Either you believe in the possibility of channeled material, or you don't. It will effect your understanding of the material, however. That is all I want to say on channeling for now -- not everyone will be interested or accepting.
If you will take the time -- please do! -- to read Seth Speaks and you find it totally ridiculous, then there will be no point in further discussion as it will do nothing but frustrate you. If it makes one iota of sense, then the concepts could be discussed in detail. It really is kindof black and white that way. Either you believe in the possibility of channeled material, or you don't. It will effect your understanding of the material, however. That is all I want to say on channeling for now -- not everyone will be interested or accepting.
Sandra:
In UK's defense, when learning to manifest something - anything- in your life, there is some small amount of trepidation. I am sure you are familiar with walking on hot coals? I no more want to try this than poke a skewer in eye. Yet, people do it all the time without serious damage to their feet. This is commonly accepted now, isn't it?
Manifesting a free coffee as UK did was a lesson set up for her by her spiritual teacher. I have been sent on many by my teacher as well. It truly is an amazing thing to say, "I would like to have a free coffee" and then have it happen so quickly. As I have written, I have found it to happen many many times.
When I lived in Australia, there was a shortage of things "American" that I would have like to have for my home. So many times I would think -- I wish I had that, and within a short period of time, it turned up in an unexpected place.
Focusing on the parking places or coffee is a test for those of trying to understand these difficult concepts -- again, think about the burning coals. Tom, that is the thing about the coffee and the parking spaces -- they are the affirmation that we can manifest something. Think about Gary Justis story, "The Coronet" -- that really happened and was a manifestation of Gary's desire to have same. Anything can happen if you are open to it. THAT is the idea.
We need to be open to possibilities. Tom, I lay down the gaunlet -- believe that you can manifest parking space and try it? Sandra -- in SF -- I triple dare you to make it work there -- it will be a blessing, NO? PS If I don't find you elsewhere, Happy Birthday!
In UK's defense, when learning to manifest something - anything- in your life, there is some small amount of trepidation. I am sure you are familiar with walking on hot coals? I no more want to try this than poke a skewer in eye. Yet, people do it all the time without serious damage to their feet. This is commonly accepted now, isn't it?
Manifesting a free coffee as UK did was a lesson set up for her by her spiritual teacher. I have been sent on many by my teacher as well. It truly is an amazing thing to say, "I would like to have a free coffee" and then have it happen so quickly. As I have written, I have found it to happen many many times.
When I lived in Australia, there was a shortage of things "American" that I would have like to have for my home. So many times I would think -- I wish I had that, and within a short period of time, it turned up in an unexpected place.
Focusing on the parking places or coffee is a test for those of trying to understand these difficult concepts -- again, think about the burning coals. Tom, that is the thing about the coffee and the parking spaces -- they are the affirmation that we can manifest something. Think about Gary Justis story, "The Coronet" -- that really happened and was a manifestation of Gary's desire to have same. Anything can happen if you are open to it. THAT is the idea.
We need to be open to possibilities. Tom, I lay down the gaunlet -- believe that you can manifest parking space and try it? Sandra -- in SF -- I triple dare you to make it work there -- it will be a blessing, NO? PS If I don't find you elsewhere, Happy Birthday!
Lisa, I appreciate your efforts at conciliation. But UK needs no defense of her beliefs - I'm open to hearing any civil discourse about it.
And there is no defense for inviting someone to 'bite her' because she misread the tone of a comment. Especially once I corrected her as to my intent - which simply earned me a repetition of the invitation, and has killed any interest I had in discussing the subject matter and her views..
And there is no defense for inviting someone to 'bite her' because she misread the tone of a comment. Especially once I corrected her as to my intent - which simply earned me a repetition of the invitation, and has killed any interest I had in discussing the subject matter and her views..
The devolution of this post exemplifies why I don't often share my philosophical or spiritual views here. Perfectly nice people are acting like outright jerks. Ack!
Exactly.
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